Flirty Little Teens??

TRIGGER WARNING FOR THIS EPISODE: SA, CA, and victim blaming

We're bringing the "Cult Cringe" again..... In this episode Whisper and Jemima read another publication that was required reading for all Children of God cult members, titled "Flirty Little Teens Beware". This publication was directed at us, the children, and places the blame on us preteens and teenagers for those poor Christian men falling into the trap of lusting after a child. We do our best to process and file away the bullshit that we grew up with, continuing our quest for the freedom of our hearts and minds. 

Transcript

welcome everybody,  to butterfly, some bravery. Jemima and myself are your hosts.    BFFs that were born into the Children of God cult notorious fucked up cult . And this podcast is us trying to make sense of our life today and having fun while doing it and having trauma while doing it.

, so we both had a pretty big. We've had a long weeks, both of us, right? Yep.  Jemima Jem, you are counting down the days you have, what, four or five more days until your surgery? Four. Four. Whew. I just finished yesterday, a huge fundraiser that I did for my nonprofit and  just me and my boss and just us too, running this huge fundraiser.

That's cool. We were trying to get 25,000, we were shooting for 25,000. We hit 23,000. So I felt, wow. I felt a little sad, but that's two people. That's just me and her . That's a lot. That's great. There's nothing to be excited about that. But yeah, it's, it is really good news because  my organization, , we've been through some hiccups these last few months because we had this other organization came in, big organization,  they strung us along for months and months.   when you stop trying to build up your base or work with your donors or , all the things that you need to be doing and when you're a nonprofit.

, and then  at the last minute they're like, oh, haha. Just kidding. Nevermind. We've been scrambling. this fundraiser was a big deal but  tomorrow uh, my oldest son is coming into town Yay. And I haven't seen him for, gosh, months and months. So I'm super excited about that.

And  I almost haven't had time to think of very much at all, but what is coming up? Jemima and I have both been running each week. Discussion groups. One  we moderate for the Lalich center for kids born in cults and the other , moderate 

One that's specifically for, kids born in children of God.  , both have been amazing, incredible. Yes, nothing to do with us. , just that, the people that are showing up are incredible. And the conversations that we're having are amazing and just.

I think a lot of people get scared to talk about things like this cuz it's big and it is scary. It is big and it's scary. And I think there's that fear of oh, I'm gonna trigger something. , I'm gonna shake the tree , things are gonna fall out and then I'm gonna have to face them.

But there's just so much strength and healing and being able to do  this processing together and not have, ,   to translate ourselves, shoot the shit or talk about serious stuff and also not have to censor ourselves. So it's just, it's been very healing.

Again, we are not  mental health professionals.

We're just friends that are inviting other friends to sit around with us and  chat. So that's been amazing. That's been really great next week. I just found out today we finally have the date for our  for the release of the podcast that we did with Cult Vault the interview that we did.

We've been teasing this and promising it for, little while,  and I finally got the news today , it's gonna be dropping next Friday so the 31st,  of March. , April Fools . That's funny. .  Our podcast interview with Cult Vault will be out. And that's super exciting.  Anyone that wants to listen to it, look it up,  if you missed it or can't find it for any reason, we will make it available on our platform.

 We'll repost it ourselves and , you won't have to worry about missing that at all.

I'm sure you're wondering why gathered.

Today we . Today we are looking back. That's it. So for anyone who has been hanging around for the last few weeks listening to our podcast a few weeks ago, we read one of our cult publications that was required reading. Actually, all publications that they put out was required reading. Yep. , but the one that we read a few weeks ago was what they used to call a bar pub, which stood for burn after reading, which meant it was that disgusting  that you were supposed to burn it after you read it.

And of course, like somebody kept a copy and or a few. And so we read that a few weeks ago and it was a tough reading and we haven't gone back to that space. But we did talk about going back to that space , because we have the next. , I guess what the companion,   liberty or stumbling block. That was  The one where they were like, , let's stop raping our children and then pretend it didn't happen. That was that. Okay. That publication Gotcha.

And three years later, from 86 to 89, yeah. They came out with a publication that was not Burn after reading. They were actually like fucking proud of this one. And it was called Flirty. Little Teens Beware. And I had forgotten that disgusting image. Do you see that the drawing there? Yeah. The cover Fucking disgusting.

We'll put it up , on our website it's an image of some older adult man. He's got a goddamn fucking mustache because of course he does  porn stash porn St. And that's come catcher. . And so he's all looking at some young teen girl who's smiling at him and doing the laundry.

Do yeah, she's doing the laundry and he's all, all drooling after her, the really fucked up thing about that is the artist who drew that is. Someone who was a major pedophile himself. So ugh. Ugh. , insert vomit. Yeah. And this was, please read Unitedly. So that means we had to read it all together.

, we had to stand there and fucking look at each other . I remember this, I was , mortified.  Like, are you kidding me? Oh, I do remember this earlier. Fair. Yeah. It's, I, so that's the setting.  It's crazy. We knew nothing.  we did not know that there was another life besides this.

But I just remember how wrong this fault. I was like, how is this possible? How this makes no sense, , how is this possible? So, If you're sticking around with us for this reading, please know that this is another one of those. It's not an easy reading, but it was a very major part of our lives and major part of our upbringing.

And definitely a window into the attitudes and the belief structure of the way that they saw sex with children, sex with minors was,  

So the title is Flirty Little Teens Beware, and the Bible verse,  that they put next to it is Second Timothy 2 22, which says, flee also youthful lusts, but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace with them. That call on the Lord out of a pure heart, which, okay, , please read Unitedly adults and teens

ross Campbell is the author of one of the books, which we've summarized in our new childcare book, Raise 'Em Right he's a Christian author and one of the things he emphasizes is how much preteen and early teen girls need a daddy

or a father figure to help them through their crucial years. He says, with a.  physical contact, especially the more affectionate type increases in importance as she becomes older and reaches a zenith at around the age of 11.

Oh my God,

lemme say I can do this. 11 is an ultra critical age when a girl has an almost desperate need for a father or father figure to help her in her preparation for adolescents. He does this by helping her to approve of herself, by showing her that he himself approves of her by unconditional love. I eye contact and physical contact, as well as focused attention.

What's for the fucking eye contact. What, okay. While recognizing the importance of giving our, so that was the, those were the quotes from this Roth Campbell person. We go, we're going back to zerbe words while recognizing the importance of giving our children affection. At the same time, we must realize this is definitely not synonymous with sex.

They don't have to have sex. They don't really need sex. In fact, having sex with them should be the farthest thing from you.  men minds, young teens like that need a father, not sex. And if you can't stop at normal fatherly affection, you'd better let someone else who can display the affection. But some teen girls play on the sexual angle to try to get the men's attention.

That's all that a lot of them want attention, but it can be easily misinterpreted by the men as meaning something else. So you men just need to take a definite stand in your own hearts and minds that you're not going to be swayed by anything that some young girl may do to interest or even entice you.

Of course, the very serious threat of excommunications should certainly make it easier for you to avoid any involvement like that with a minor. Just like a priest is supposed to remain celibate in order to remain a priest. So you adult men had better abstain from getting involved with our underage girls.

And likewise, you adult women had better not get involved with underage boys. It may be a real fight for some of you, but you can't afford to give into the lusts of the flesh. Wow. Fucking hell.

It's like, why would you need to tell someone not to murder? Please we're asking you to please not murder other people. That's literally what. Comes across as

  back to Zerby's words. There's nothing wrong with fighting against giving into sexual desires if in some particular situation they're wrong. Let's face it, sex is not something that's always good, clear across the board. Just because we promote sex  and we believe God made it, and that it's his wonderful creation, doesn't mean that it's always good.

Under every circumstance, all things are , lawful,  But all things are not expedient or edifying. That's the first quarantine is 10, 13, 23. There are times when sex is not good and you men just have to realize and be fully persuaded in your own minds that one time when it's definitely not good is when it involves a minor.

We've already made that pretty clear by telling you'll be excommunicated if you indulge in it. So you men just need to take that stand in your own hearts and minds and say, no matter what kind of heavy pressure or allurement I may get from some of these cute little teen girls, I'm not gonna give into.

I know that it can be a difficult distinction to make sometimes between what's normal, fatherly affection and what's bordering on the lusts of the flesh. Yes, definitely. That's definitely a hard thing to tell. So hard. So hard. Like I can't, is, am I, is this fatherly affection or I'm like, what fucker?

Which is it? . Sorry,

 You men are going to have to draw the line and avoid anything that could lead to sexual involvement, just like priests are supposed to, just like anybody who knows that their job and their whole life is at stake, so they refuse to yield to such temptations. We're not supposed to be so weak that we yield to everything just because somebody comes along and pressures or tempts us one way or another.

  The children, it's the children that they're referencing 11 year olds that are pressuring them and tempting them, right? Yeah. Yeah.  fucking hell. If you know something's wrong, you can resist it no matter what it is. The Lord can always give you the grace and power if you'll just turn to him for help, he says.

my grace is sufficient for you. My strength is made perfect. In your weakness, why do you think he says flea youthful lusts? That means turn around and go the opposite direction. Don't toy with it or play around with it. So you men have to do your part by not giving into that kind of pressure. You should realize that the girls probably don't even know what it will lead to.

And the series problems that such relationships can create. In most cases, our teen girls have been fairly innocent. They've probably seen their mothers and their aunts and uncles and everyone show lots of love and affection to others. And so they've just figured this is what we're supposed to do.

And maybe they've also found out that they can get a little extra favor and attention that way. So of course they'll do anything they can to get attention and win favor and get extra privileges, et cetera, just like teen girls do in system school with their male teachers as it's profitable for them to be the teacher's pet

But you men are going to be held much more responsible because you are supposed to be responsible adults. You are the ones who are going to suffer for it and be disciplined, and even excommunicated for such involvement. You're the ones who are going to pay the most. Therefore, you're going to have to be convinced that it's absolutely not worth it to get involved with these teen girls.

The rules and penalties we've established should certainly help you.

Warning to teen girls . Here comes the special cringe barf part, right?   as that wasn't always cringe enough, but right on the other hand, I think we really owe it to the men. , sorry,

that we also make things very clear to you. Teen girls. Look, whatever you may think, such flirty behavior may get you special favors or attention or privileges or even a daddy or whatever You are toying with someone that's really dangerous. You are playing with fire. And not only are you up to get burned, but you could very well get this man into a lot of very serious trouble.

How dare you in danger or even completely destroy his fruitfulness for the Lord and even his place in the family. It's that serious.

And he is under strict orders not to get involved with you. So when you're trying to get him involved and you're trying to make eyes at him and tease him and play up to him, and rub against him and kiss him and everything else, whatever your motivation may be, he's the one who's going to really suffer for it.

You're really getting him into deep trouble and you can get him excommunicated as a result. And if you do that, God's going to hold you responsible too. If you do that, look what you're doing to this poor man. How would you like to be cast out of the family and have nowhere to go, not get. Anymore,

not have any more loving family fellowship. He could easily be excommunicated if he gives in to you. I think in some cases the teen girls provoke it even more than the men family. So this is another word. Someone else is piping up in the room. . Our teen girls definitely need to hear this message cuz some of them really do initiate it.

The little pre-teen girls usually don't know what they're provoking. They're more uninformed and inexperienced. But most of the teens are very much aware of what they're doing, although they don't really fully understand the consequences. . So do they or don't? They said it both. Yeah. They don't know what they're provoking.

They don't know what they're doing. But they're aware, very much aware of what they're doing. Preteen, so we're talking about like 10? Yep.  11, 12. 'Yep.

Yes. Oh, back to back to Maria's speaking. Yes. After hearing all about our former FF'ing and everything, they probably wanna try to do the same thing. Uh, effing, Effing stood for flirty fishing, which was essentially prostitution for the, they claimed was for the sake of religion. Yep. So they're like, she's basically saying here that the young middle school girls wanted to do that because they saw that happening and they definitely wanted to do the same thing.

That's essentially what she's saying. Yeah. Big victim blaming going on there. God fuck.

All right. Back to the vomit. Our people are already ffd and they're already in the family, so our young girls certainly don't need to try to ff them. . What the fuck

does that, seriously, does that even have anything to do with it? It makes no sense whatsoever.  nothing, no sense. And it's very dangerous for them to do. So there's just more like trying to victim blame, that's just that. Yeah. Anyways, so girls, if you have any fear of the Lord at all, if you love the Lord at all, if you love your family at all, certainly seems that you would want to forego any lustful or selfish desires like that for the sake of the adult men who run a very serious risk.

Adult men, . Not for you, not to protect your virginity or to keep yourself  No. From having to service people as a middle school girl. . What? What the fuck? Nope. No. For the sake of the adult men, yeah. It's their fault. Yeah. Protect them. Just who cares about the kids, right?

Who run a very serious risk of getting completely miscommunicated if they give into you. This is a very important point and something you need to understand clearly.

We grew I'm going. . Obviously I'm giving my 2 cents here, but we grew up desperate for love and desperate for affection. We grew up  tossed aside over and over again. I've never met any ex children of God children that didn't have that experience of not really feeling or knowing that they were loved and wanting that and seeking and wishing for it.

But I also have never once met anyone, male or female or anything in between that  anyone in be, like that has been like, oh yeah, I want that affection so much that I'm gonna go and rub up against, like never.

No. All right, men restrain yourselves and ask for help when needed. If any of you men have a definite weakness along these lines, a definite problem with such temptations, you should just confess it to your shepherds and say, look, I can't handle being tempted with this. I can't even be around such a temptation.

I just want you to know I might step out of line if tempted like that. , so please help me avoid it. Family, which is another person, piping him one. One brother we recently heard about is an example of someone who needs help like this. He's really a good and helpful brother, but some situations tempted him almost above that, which he's able to bear, such as swimming with a pool full of teen girls.

He could hardly control himself.

Zerbe continues. Yes. It's definitely a very real temptation for some of our men family, especially when they swim with some of these sexy bikini, clagged teen girls. It's almost too much zerbe. Yes. Particularly if he has a wife who never wants to have sex, or maybe she just had a baby.

So it's either the teen girl's fault or it's the wife's fault for how dare you have a baby. Yeah. Yes. It's some woman's fault that he is molesting after middle school girls. It's a woman's fault. Okay. Family. Or he might be separated and single and lonely. That's why this particular fellow had such a problem along these lines.

He confessed. I'm just very. I'll fly in court after all, , after all, what? Normal man, this is Zerbe again, by the way. After all, what normal man would not be attracted to sweet, pretty blossoming young women and even more so if the teen provokes it or aggressively leads him on. my skin is crawling. So this is a very needed and important message to both you teens and adults that you need to try to restrain yourselves. Not just try, but you definitely need to restrain yourselves and you adults who have had such a great problem with it that you don't think you can reframe will just have to ask for help so that you don't find yourself in the kind of situation that tempts you above what you're able to bear.

I feel sorry for you, but you're just going to have to learn to bring your body into subjection. It's possible. The Lord says you can do all things through Christ, which strengthen with you. Jesus said all things are possible, and when you're weak, then you're strong. For his strength is made perfect in your weakness, so it can be done and you're just going to have to do it.

Love how she has all this sympathy for the men.  It's disgusting. , nothing. No. And here's more of the, okay, here we go again. Teens, you're accountable. Don't even start it.

Oh, I know that sometimes the men sort of invite it, but I would say that some of you little hot patooty teens are often the main culprit.

While in some ways you may not be as responsible or accountable as the adult in other ways, you are also very guilty  if you tempt some adult when you shouldn't, and that adult winds up getting excommunicated because of it, certainly the Lord will hold you responsible too.

So we want to jerk you up. What the fuck does that mean? Oh, okay. Yank you out of your seat. I got it. Yeah. That's what that means. So we want to jerk you up and tell you plainly that you are not just little innocent bystanders, but the Lord is going to hold you accountable. While you may not have to pay the greatest penalty in punishment and have to actually be put out of the family, the Lord is still going to hold you responsible, especially if you know what you're doing.

That's because you're a fucking child, like 10. So that's why they can't kick you out. But you know what you're doing fucking 11 year old, right? Yeah.

 And we're telling you now what the results of such actions will be. So you will know what now to do. So God is definitely going to hold you responsible, not the men who are adults with fully formed brains. No . What the fuck? Like, where's the logic there? Oh, if you didn't fully realize it before, you should certainly realize it after hearing this.

You're not just little innocent things who are going to get off the hook, Scott, free. At least not with the Lord. The Lord will definitely not bust it. But we were, we should have been.

We. Where is it? Yeah, exactly.

It's ridiculous to try and hold a child accountable for that. Like, where does that thought, The level of fucked upness that this is, that, that's where her brain is. It's at, this is a woman who's a mother, supposedly. She's not really a mother, but

here comes more vomiting parts. Oh, Jesus Christ.  This is the very thing the system would like to use against us sex with minors, which they always term. Quote unquote, child abuse. Although in our loving family, there would be very little possibility of genuine abuse, and if there has been any, hopefully we've gotten rid of that.

Now completely. Teens don't know the horrors of genuine sex abuse that are committed in the world. However, besides the fact that it's illegal, we must keep the system's rules as pointed out in this letter. There are also other good reasons for abstaining from such actions. This is literally at the time it's 1989.

Yeah, we were in Thailand. Yep. Living in the hostile hospital.  being forced to stand naked while boys opened the doors. Yep. This is while we were eating chicken feed . This is while we were eating fish and rice for months on end. This is while we were in solitary confinement. This is while we were on silence restriction, but none of that's abuse.

Oh. This is also while we were getting spanked in front of 150 people on our naked ass with a cricket. Yeah, because we laughed at something or made a stupid joke. Yep. God. Yeah.

It's true that one of the biggest and most obvious reasons we've had to crack down and make such strict rules and harsh punishments against any such involvement is because it is so absolutely illegal with the system. That's the biggest reason, not because the fucking kids were getting hurt.

The family can get a lot of very serious trouble with kids being taken away and parents being put in jail and the family ripped apart in the media by evil propaganda. Because of it, the results can be quite devastating.

However, another reason we forbid it is because if some cute little teen teases and flirts and is able to steal the man's heart away, she is also guilty. She is also guilty of taking his mind off the Lord's work, off his job, off his wife, and away from his children. . That's the way it is. That's what has happened.

In some cases, she then practically starts running the home and becomes like a babe put into a position of great responsibility. A novice lifted up in pride. First Timothy three six. Although she's immature and incapable of such responsibility, she's virtually running things through this man who hardly even knows what he's doing anymore because he's so wrapped up in her.

Who isn't following the 13 year old around? Doesn't he doing anymore like making decisions? Because if they're obsession with the preteen girl, I'm like, yeah, okay, that makes perfect sense. Fuck God damn.

So such relationships certainly do not bear good fruit and never have, so it's wrong, that's why she should not even begin any supposedly quote unquote innocent flirtation. That's what it can lead to.

 Once you get a man into a kind of a situation, he's practically going out of his mind. That's why they say, I'm crazy over you. He doesn't know what he's doing, and he can hardly do anything, but put all of his mind and affection and thoughts and energies into. . Now, some of you teens may think, wow, that's a lot of influence and power.

Not a deal might appeal to you, but if it does, you can be sure it's from the wrong source and you better not yield to it for if you do, the Lord's really gonna sock it to you, even if your shepherds don't because maybe the man that you've been so flirty with is your shepherd. Who knows? That's why it's good to have over shepherds who are diligent to keep their eye on the flocks and their under shepherds,

 and even if you don't get it here, you're gonna get it there. You're gonna really get it from the Lord and be held very responsible for a big, bad deliberate disobedience, especially if you willfully go against what we're telling you right now,

you didn't know it before. This makes it clear why you shouldn't carry on like that. I'm not just talking about having sexy either. It's all these flippant, vain, silly and flirty little things that the teen girls can do that lead into the big problems.

Even if you men don't have sex with someone, you can still fall head over heels in love with them and go completely out of your mind over them.

What man falls in love with a What?  what? In my opinion, no man, no would ever do such a thing. Not a healthy . Exactly. Not a healthy man. Fucking, Hey, bro.

So even if you just give in to the preliminaries of it, spending hours together and reading together and holding hands, arms around each other, a little furtive kiss here and there, whatever, it's too much.

So bottom line is like lots of men we're having these kind of relationships with teen girls. Otherwise, why would they feel the need to address it to the entire cult? And remember at this point, we had not heard, we had not heard that original, the one that we read before, which was the, oh, we know you were, they, the kids have all been abused, but you need to stop abusing them.

Like we had not heard. This is the first time we've ever heard like any sort of oh yeah, we know this is happening, but it's your fault.  because that was adults only the bird. Yeah. That was adults like this. I remember how out of the blue this was. I was like what? Yeah. Fucking bullshit, bro.

Oh my goodness. Lord.

I know that there's sometimes, did you read that? Oh yeah. Sorry. Go ahead. , a very fine line between normal fatherly affection that all our men should feel toward all our children. And the other is there though. No, I feel like it's more like a bit of a chasm.

It's a, it's definitely a chasm. How do you go? How do you go from chasm to fine line? Yeah. That's some serious oh, that's right. She was blind. That makes sense. . She's is that a chasm or a line? It's a line.

Oh God. Okay.

But I think any of that kind of flirty behavior can often turn into a lot more than mere fatherly affection. Family. Somebody else piping up. In other words besides dad, is encouraging the teens to get together with other teens. Now I read into that, that in the past it wasn't that way. , it's time for them to find their own mates and to seriously seek the Lord about their future.

And then Maria says, yes, that's right. Maybe teens weren't guilty before because you never really had it spelled out for. But now you're getting it spelled out for you in this letter. First of all, it's illegal. If you're underage, teens getting involved with an adult, you can get yourself taken away and put in a foster home.

yes, please,

dude.

Oh, and the auto could get put in jail. Yay.  and the whole local family could get in serious trouble. Yay. . Do you want to be guilty of that? I know obviously we're here as , we've had we're older but Ima like, I remember, we were like 15 and 16 when this came out ourselves and.

Just, I remember feeling the weight of how much they were blaming us for this. Oh yeah, me too. Me too. Absolutely. , do you wanna be guilty of that? , right? Yeah. Secondly, do you want to be guilty of having a precious Christian man excommunicated? If he was a precious Christian man, would he be lusting after 18 or girl?

I believe it says precious Christian man. Precious Christian man. Excommunicated, destroying his life, his work in his ministry for the Lord destroying his family, leaving his little kids without a gaddy, not to mention hurting his wife. And if he's a leader disillusioning and hurting his followers, all of that can happen just cuz you give into a little game of flirting and playing and teasing and rubbing.

Do you want to be guilty of that? And of course the Lord is gonna hold you plenty guilty as well. I'm feeling stabby right now, like stabby just feel like a normal teen wouldn't have those desire. Like a 10 to 13 year old girl is not flirting, playing, teasing, and rubbing on adults unless they've been exposed to. That in the past? Am I wrong? Not at all. Okay. This is gonna be our this is going to speak into our personal story.

There was our Teen Shepherd, quote unquote, when we were in Thailand, who was very charismatic. I, I suppose on some level he, like he was sexy, , if I look back on it as a, as a, as an adult. Yeah. And obviously he was the head of our whole like, and  and how badly did we wanna get on his side? How badly did we wanna get in his good graces? How desperately we wanted his approval. Not fucking once did I ever think I'm gonna try and seduce him. Not even fucking once

No, not even. Not even once. No. And he used to like undress in front of us and shit. Remember that? Yeah. Because his room was this tiny little closet. Yeah. Off of our room. So he would just get naked every night and walk around naked to the bathroom, walk through naked at night, go back.

But it was like, it was, but it never even it never was like, oh, . Like never, no, he never was like, Hey, look at my dignity. No ne no. He, no he, obviously he was not he w he was from a European countries, so they have, they're l little bit more mature about, about, about nakedness than Americans are, but still he was never for, he was never forward with any of us that I ever saw.

No, but even still, when you think about the opportunities that we had, like with him, especially like in remember way back in the early beginnings when he was like, in that hallway Yeah. Between the rooms and literally we would just we could just walk in his room, like walk in there whenever we wanted.

Talk about opportunity if we really wanted to have that opportunity. But it never even crossed my mind. And I, he was the closest, he was definitely the closest thing that I ever personally experienced as a father figure. Me too. In the cult. He I loved him on a, in a very fatherly sort of way.

. I admired him. And, to the extent of my experience and the extent of my knowledge, he was the first male.  adult that I'd ever met my whole life, who wasn't trying to fuck me, right? And never once for a moment did I ever think oh yeah, let's, let me

And you and I, we were like to, back in that at the time, we loved him so much. Like I remember us talking about, but it was never, in a weird way, it was like, I wish that I had, I wish that this would've been what my dad was, that was the closest it ever came.

But yeah. No, it's not. It's not the adult men who are thinking this. Nope. Teen girls. Yeah. Yeah. Little teen girls. Damn them. Oh, destroying his life. Yada. Okay. So it seems to me that some of you sexy teen girls should walk a little more circumspectly and soberly. There's no reason why you have to act that way with any adult men.

And if you do, you risk getting yourselves and the men and the Lord's working so's trouble. It's just not worth it. If you really love the Lord and you really wanna serve Jesus, you're not gonna do it. Family speaks up if they want and need romance or affection like that. They should get their eyes on teen boys their own age, who are desperate for emotional stability and love and affection.

Back to Maria. Yes. Even if the teen boys your own age aren't as mature as you are, maybe the Lord wants to use you to help them to grow and to become more mature and to teach them what they need to know. Even if you girls have to be like a mother to them in some ways, oh my God, what? Ew. Ew. Just, there's usually a little bit of sacrifice involved in real love and a little bit of unselfish giving.

You've been given to all your lives. You should be willing to return it now and give it to others. Really? What the fuck were we giving? Cause I ain't got shit. No. You need to know that there are some definite rules and restrictions in spite of the fact that we have a lot of freedom. We don't have freedom to destroy other people's freedom.

I can see how you girls could easily get into that if you have a few susceptible men around family. Yes. If it was to their advantage, almost any female would go for it. Really? If it wouldn't give you a demerit or get you in trouble later. If it works to their advantage, they just tend to use it. Oh my god.

I, no, dude. But see even like what they were, I, cause I, oh God, I remember this so clearly cuz they were like like they should, if you need romance and affection, like they should just get their eyes and teen boys. But do you remember at the time we were not allowed, we were like not allowed to have none increased.

Yeah. Nuns and priests at the time. They had for whatever reason, that was their experiment with our particular, in, in our school was the complete Yeah, like the nuns and priests. So even with that, even with those restrictions of us never being allowed to have anything with another, another other guy, if we were looking for Romans or affection, we still never crossed my mind or our minds to go towards an adult man.

All right. Adults don't tolerate it. This should help our adults too, to see how serious it is and to make them realize they shouldn't let the teens promote it. In other words, if you adults see some teen girl acting flirty with the adult men, you should sit 'em down and say, Hey honey, that's against the rules.

Let's read this. Wow. Or the man himself should say, read this and see how serious this is. Do you wanna get me in trouble? You just have to stand up for what's right. You have to weigh the consequences and take a stand. Sometimes if you see an adult and an underage teen flirting with each other, just stop them and say, that's improper behavior, and that's not good.

It's not godly. It's not obedient, and we can't let it go on. Stop it. Family, just as many of our teen boys in the family got into being cool and worldly. This is . Oh my God. This is like the girl's version of worldliness. It's not exactly being quote unquote cool, but it's the wrong spirit. And Zerbe says this letter should help everyone just realize how wrong it is.

And not only wrong, but downright dangerous for the Lord's work. So for God's sake, let's not have any more of that kind of behavior. Amen. Praise the Lord. God bless and keep you seeking first, what's best for his kingdom. I love you.

After your home, unitedly reads this letter, any adults or teens, male or female who have specific weaknesses, temptations or trials along these lines, should ask for united prayer while you're all together and united in. With this council fresh in your minds, it's the ideal time to confess your faults one to another and pray for one another that you may be healed.

If any of you teens are involved in or even tempted with any kind of unedifying, , any kind of unedifying, romantic or sexual quote, unquote love relationship with an adult, or if any of you adults have or attempted with any such relationship with a teen, for God's sake, for the family's sake, for your own sake, ask for prayer and overcome it now.

A amen. God bless you. We love you.

I'm so scabby right now. I'm so scabby,

  Just before giving our final approval on this flirty little teens beware a letter, the Lord. The Lord helped me to realize that we still needed to add something more to it. It dawned on me that many of our teens will probably find themselves strongly attracted to in having what is known as a quote unquote crush on an adult at one time or another, even the system acknowledges this is a very common, normal and natural occurrence, and nothing to get overly concerned or worried about.

It happens to teens all the time.

So I want to make a distinction, a clarification here. It's normal and natural for teen girls to develop strong feelings toward men, teachers, or shepherds, whom they look up to and whom they very much admire, respect, and see as good role models and good examples. In fact, in these older men, they're often looking for a sample of what a godly man should be like, the kind they will want as a husband one day.

There's really nothing wrong with that kind of admiration and love, if that's all it is, if it's admiration, if it's love, if it's feelings that are kept in the proper place, which is usually in their hearts and minds, then there's nothing wrong with. There's no reason why they have to express those feelings openly or flaunt them in the form of physical advances or flirty behavior or anything along those lines.

Perfectly normal for young people to have crushes on their teachers, the girls on the men teachers, the boys on the women teachers. Even the system accepts and tolerates, quote unquote crushes as a fact of life for adolescents and teens. But the problem comes in, if you let those feelings get out of hand and do something that would be hurtful to the person or to the Lord's work, for example, doing something that distracts someone from their work or causes them to do things they shouldn't, or takes their minds and energy and love off of those that they should have them on.

That sort of behavior's definitely hurtful.

You just have to bring your body and your mind into subjection and whatever you do all to the glory of God and nothing to the hurt of others. The Apostle Paul talks a lot about bringing our bodies into subjection one Corinthians 9 27. If we didn't have such feelings or thoughts, we couldn't have to bring them into subjection.

In other words, there are some things that are all right in our minds and hearts, but when we start physically expressing them, that's when it's wrong.

Pretty sure that's not how it goes. , that verse about Mary illustrates the fact that we can keep things in our minds and hearts without expressing them. Mary kept all these things and pondered them in her heart. Really? Wow. That's totally like just like taking Wow. Okay, far left field, Luke 10, 2 19

That's like talking about when the angel came and fucked her, right? Yeah. . Yeah. Yeah. That's what I thought she did. She didn't tell her husband , right? Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. An angel quote, unquote. The point I'm making is that it's all right to picture some things in our minds that we shouldn't express, really,

and although some things really aren't wrong in themselves called child pornography. Yeah, that's exactly what it's called. And although they aren't wrong in themselves, they're unwise, not expedient or helpful and could actually become harmful. So in other words, it's not wrong. No. That, that know, again, that took a con, like that's the message we constantly got over and over again.

This isn't wrong, we just don't wanna get in trouble. . Yep. Could actually become harmful, distracting, or even des disruptive to ourselves and others if we start manifesting or fulfilling them outwardly or openly. Of course, it usually takes some willpower to refrain from expressing such feelings.

Whenever we feel strongly about someone, it takes a lot of oil power to keep those feelings where they belong, right? Yeah. Like people just can't keep their dicks in their pants . No, definitely not. The Lord is able to help you keep things in the proper place. So I'm not saying that it's wrong to have that kind of feeling , but it is wrong for our teen girls and teen boys and even a lot of our adults to manifest those feelings when doing so.

Would not bear good fruit. See an example of this in fsm blah, blah blah, some bar garbage

So I'm not saying that it's wrong to have a crush on your teacher. It's going to happen and it's just normal and I can't see anything wrong about it. But it is wrong to openly flaunt that kind of feeling and openly try to distract the person from their responsibilities. Not to mention the various serious implications of our adults being accused of child abuse.

 Love is not wrong if we keep it in the proper place. Feelings are not wrong either, but they shouldn't always be expressed. Of course, I'm talking about not expressing such feelings to the one you're attracted to, but it's good to keep in close communication with your shepherds and let them know what you're going through.

In other words, we don't always have to fulfill the lusts or desires of the flesh. Even some of the good feelings and desires we should, even some of the good feelings and desires we have should not always be fulfilled at any major behavior or activity. It's often enough just to have those feelings of respect, admiration and love, it's a matter of all things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient or helpful.

Corinthians six 12, first Corinthians six 12. In other words, the love that you feel is not wrong and perhaps the activities that would express that love are not wrong in themselves, but they would definitely be wrong under certain circumstances, especially if it's going to bear bra bad fruit in people's lives, endanger the Lord's work, or set up poor example for others.

nothing about if it might hurt the child. No, Nope, nothing. Nothing.

So you just need to watch out how you express the love you feel. And if it's between minors and adults, it would just be better not to express it at all, at least not sexually. But I don't want all you girls or boys to feel condemned. If you are attracted to an adult whom you admire or even have a crush, crush on, you can always pray for the one you feel attracted to.

Asking the Lord to bless strength and prosper them in their service for him and others. I know I had crushes on a lot of different older men when I was a teen. Of course, they did occupy a good deal of my time and cause me to waste quite a bit of a time daydreaming. But other than that, I think it was good for me in some ways, at least those crushes focused my thoughts on good samples and good godly men.

Not just shallow, foolish people, men who are good samples with good fruit. And I'm sure it was good for them in that I did a lot of praying for.  and obviously she went and married Berg, so yeah. . Yeah. Like super good. Just so good that worked out so great.  just like one of the worst cult leaders in all of history.

Okay. Yeah. Good plan. So great. So fruitful. So fruitful. So all that to say, if you teens ever feel strongly attracted to adult whom you greatly admire, respect or even have a crush on, you don't need to feel condemned about it, , except that they just fucking wrote a whole letter about how we should feel condemned about it.

Such feelings are very normal and natural. Just be careful and careful not to openly manifest or display these feelings physically and especially not sexually men. God bless you. I love you. Wow. And scene . I'm sorry. Yeah, there's bunch of garbage verses on the end.

That's pretty bad, dude. I'm okay. , I'm not gonna lie. This was harder for me to hear than even that the one that we read last time, the stumbling block one, because at least that one was validating. . This just, this just turns up the,

it just it's, yeah. Dad was our fucking life. That was it.

It's you know this, but it's fairly, personal to me too, because of just what I went through. Yeah. My family does not listen to this podcast , but my mom took on a second husband for a while, second mate, as they called them. And this per this person, this man abused me. He came into our world when I was 11, and I think the last time he had access to me was, I was about 15.

He eventually, went about his own life and eventually actually he left the cult.  when he met and married some woman

But she has continued, his wife has continued to contact me over the years. Now of course I've like complete, like I've blocked her in every fucking possible way there is to block her. But she contact, she used to contact me and be like, I forgive you for seducing him. And I was like, fucking bitch.

I was 12. I did not fucking seduce him. . I wanted fucking nothing to do with him. Seriously.

I the leaders in the home that I was in when I was 12, they came to me and said that he had asked, I'm sorry, I'm just gonna be vulgar. I don't care. He had asked to fuck me. And.  that if I agreed to do that, then I could watch the adult movie that night,

which was Star Trek. I think it was like the, whatever the con what's that one? Yeah. I think it was that one. Anyway, it was an old, it was an old Star Trek movie and I wanted to see , I wanted to see it, so I agreed and went, and I watched the movie and I, but before the movie ended, I I knew it was coming close to being ended, and I snuck away and went and called back in my bed and pretended to be asleep.

When he came looking for me, he tried to pick me up and bring me to his room, but I,

yeah, so he, yeah, he fi he finally just left me a note alone that night. . But that think about that. You go to your 12 year old child and be like, Hey, if you will have sex with this adult man, I will let you watch this movie that you wanna watch.

and then that man's wife went and spent, has spent the last . I don't know. I've been heard from, I haven't personally heard from her for several years now because blocked her on everything. But she actually had access to somebody in my family that is no longer my family because of what happened.

But, she had access to somebody in my family and was still like, she actually wrote she made up all this shit that I was like sending, she said I was sending him naked pictures of myself. This is four or five years ago. Uhhuh, . Yes. The man that abused me and raped me when I was 12 years old.

Yeah, definitely. At fucking 45 years old. I'm sending him naked pictures of myself. That's definitely happening. And a someone in my family, my sister was like, confronted me and I was like, so why are you doing that? And I was like, are you fucking kidding? Yeah. don't speak to her anymore but think about it.

I'm like, . I'm 45 years old,

and this nightmare's still falling me around

and I'm still being blamed.

Sorry, that was hard to read. Sorry.

None of us ever wanted that. None of us.  A few teen girls that when we were in Thailand, because we were like, we were the right, the nuns and priests,  we were very strictly monitored at the time. And we had some teens that came in from other school other, like other big commune, big communes that.

They had gone, they had tried different experiments with they'd gave them like very, full sexual freedom. And they came in and I just, I remember that they were very flirting. I was like, whoa. Yeah. Wow. Like they were like they knew what they were doing.

Like even I was like watching them and I was like, oh, wow, you knew, you know what you're doing. You know that you are using your body. You know that you're using your sexual, and I mean they were like, 15, 60 at a time. But never to an adult that was to the other teen boys.

Never to an adult. Never to an adult.

Yeah. That was

That was our life. That was the attitude. Yeah. That was the attitude of how we grew up.

Those precious Christian men, , right? Those precious Christian men. Precious, oh my God, the fuck dude? I suck. A precious Christian man wouldn't be fucking attractive to a goddamn damn 11 year old. What the fuck are you thinking? Like it's, ugh, it's so gross. . Seriously, just the whole thought pattern is so messed up, so wrong.

And this is why in my personal life and in my personal journey of healing, why I draw a pretty, definitely not a narrow line . I draw a chasm between those,

 Adults who joined , the cult, and then wanna come around and be like, oh, but I'm a victim too. And Oh, but I didn't know. No, you listened to this bitch. Like reading that, saying that kind of shit. You listened to that and was like, , definitely. Definitely. Amen. Thank the Lord.

Amen.   I admit and acknowledge that there's such a thing as, getting wrapped up that I definitely understand that there's,  coercion and not brainwashing because that's not scientifically accurate, but, there's coercion and power control and all that kind of stuff that does fall into it. And there's, that all comes into play. And I will always agree and acknowledge that, people get themselves into situations that they can then, go back and look back and say wow, that was not okay.

 I've had those in my life plenty of times, but there's a big difference, and it's not a fine line  between, getting yourself in over your head. Getting under some sort of situation where you're obligated, you're stuck you're desperate, whatever.

All those things. And actually . Listening to and reading something like that and being like, yes, this is the person that I want to lead me in my spiritual walk with. God. This is the person that I'm going to follow. This is the person that I believe is led by God. This is the person that I believe is anointed by God.

That's the fucking difference.

But see, here's why we run into  sometimes why , none of them will fucking take accountabilities because the, that's what they were. Those were things they read. That was the teachings in our cult. That was the teachings of oh, . No, that's not you. That's 12 year old.

That's that 11 year old, that's that 13 year old who's like seducing you. How dare they spreading the devil's seed? How dare they?

I am, I'm, yes I'm, there's a lot of angst happening right now. . I like that word too. I like that.    it's, it's tough. To read shit like that. Cuz I don't go back , I don't read this shit like, I do not  I 100% believe in the, healing journey of not being ashamed of your story of putting voice to your story, owning it.

And I don't believe in that. Let's pretend that past never happened.  But at the same time you don't necessarily need to go roll in the mud either. , to remember what it was like. And so   for the most, part I don't go back to that.

 There's a Bible verse. What is it like about the dog returning to their vomit? Yeah. A dog returning to his vomit. So a fool return it to his folly. There you go. Yeah, so I, I don't need to return to that vomit. I don't fuck that. That shit can stay in the garbage can where it belongs.

It can . , but you know what, at the same time  I think that there's an element, to , as we go through our journey of healing, ? We're going to,  sometimes go back.  You have to sometimes go back and touch the places that are still, rough.

That's how a healing journey is. You work through and you look at and you deal with and reparent the spaces that you can and the places that you can't. And once you're strong in those spaces, . You can go back to, the other places.

And , this is definitely one of those situations where it's okay,  in all these years I've not   had any inkling desire in any way, shape or form to go back and read that kind of bullshit. But I also feel as tough as it was to read that, especially cuz I have, pretty personal connection or a personal experience, , personal traumatic experience of that sort of like you were to blame for this mad adult man, raping you.

Like you were the one who did it.  because I wanted to watch Star Trek . But

I I do see, the benefits and when you're ready for it and when you're able to go back to a place that is painful, that is difficult, and say, okay, that was wrong. And that was  the reason sorry, I'm losing my words cuz it  it wasn't easy to hear that. It wasn't easy to read. was angry and I was crying. I was all the things . But

as tough as it is to go back and remember those things and hear those things and remind ourselves that was the environment that we grew up in. , it brings those, ugly things into the light. These things are not in the shadows anymore. , and until you're able to start looking at these things and facing them, you're not gonna be able to work through the shame of them.

. I struggle with shame so much. I struggle with too. It's hard. I'm lucky in the sense that, I'm talking to you right now like it's you and me we're having a personal conversation , cuz I can always tell you anything and I don't have to worry about it, but I'm also aware of the fact that , like I'm, telling some pretty  horrific and personal stories that, anybody listening to this is gonna hear.

And I'm not immune to that shame . I'm not immune to wondering, like how people are gonna look at me or how people are gonna think about me.

, but it's important to, to take something like that and read that shit and be like, okay, this is why this has been living in my head. This is why I've been in shape about this is because this is what we are told. We are told that this was our fault. Yep. And so being able to bring that sort of out into light as an adult,  and as a mother now who's gone to hell and back for my children and fought for them and Yeah.

And knowing what it means to be a parent . I had that chance to go back and say, okay this is why I have this shame around. This is why it hurt so bad. Or this is why, I'm triggered. I know that word has lost a little bit of its  potency but it is, it is.

That's what it is. It's triggering.

  If you're able to you have to come to that place.  I feel this in my life. I have to come to that place because anything that I'm like, no, that's too much. I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna face it. If I continue to keep something like that , on my back shelf Yeah.

In some way, at some point it's gonna come back again. Yep. For example, like what happened to me  in this  training seminar that I was in, and I was like in fucking, in front of whole bunch of people. I had a goddamn fucking panic attack, .  And I had to work through my shame for that.

I was like okay. So that's still there.  might need to look at that .  and we have to do that. I don't think that's part of the process, of healing, of going okay, I'm not ready to, or I'm not in a place I haven't gotten to that, that avenue or that, wherever that, memory lives. I'm not there right now. Not Did it open that door? Yeah. Yeah. It's not that you're not strong enough, it's just that  you can only take,  so many things at once, right? . 

Sometimes you just have to open that wound up again and say, okay, , now it's time to heal, . Now it's time to, do some of that , deep tissue massage, .  And get to the root of it, I guess you could say. Yeah.

File back that away. Yeah. Because, as long as you're keep putting it back, like on that shelf either I'll deal with that later or I'm not gonna deal with that at all, ever. It's gonna keep haunting you. , it lives with you. It does. Yep.

You got filed away at some point. Yeah. This is me completely talking to myself and being like, okay, you're gonna be okay. Whisper, you're gonna be okay. You are gonna be okay. .  A lot of has to do because I get to talk to you like every single day.

But just also,  I'm a lot safer. I feel a lot safer in this situation than I'm in right now, than I have in, many years. Yeah. And because I'm feeling safer and because I'm feeling stronger, I'm like, okay I can do this, , I can deal with this. I can open that back up and let, and allow it to be raw and allow it, I'm not saying oh, I, need to be okay with this.

I'm not  No, nope, not okay with it but I can allow it to be raw and still be safe. Yeah. And I think that's. , that's the journey  that's right. .  We are warrior. Good Lord. I definitely  don't think at least for me, but enough warnings in the beginning of this episode,  do not enter.

Are there enough warnings? No. There, no there, there really isn't. 

There was an element of almost a validation and lightness that came with the other one. I'm like, yes. See, they did know when they lied to us as painful as was, they did know when they lied to us. And that at least gives me the validation of okay, I'm not crazy , like I was being gaslit.

I'm not crazy. Whereas this is a little bit more of that, This is why I have so much trouble with self-esteem  cause this is the muck and the yuck that we had to grow up in and that we've had to, spent  every waking and sometimes sleeping hour of our lives.

Sorting through and

unlearning.  When you've been born into something as destructive a cult, especially something that's destructive of the child as the children of God, but when you've been born into something that destructive, and you're talking about indoctrination since you were a fucking baby there's just, there's not really a space to just compartmentalize these things and say, okay, , let's put it over there.

Not if you really want to

sort through those influences and those old, messed up thought patterns and those messed up belief systems that have been ingrained in you.    Reading shit like that. Just being like, God, no fucking wonder.

I have such a horrific inner dialogue. Like no fucking wonder . So I guess there's a validation in that, right? Of okay, so  this isn't just my own mind making this shit up. This is this is disgusting people who did this to, to all of us.  And, people listening to this, especially if  you were born into and raised in the children of God the way that we were 

Just please be so fucking proud of yourself and be so fucking proud of the progress and the places that you brought yourself into, because that's the shit, that's the shit that we grew up in and that is fucked up  it is legit.   We're supernatural heroes.

Like in,  being able to sort through that stuff and you. Tell ourselves we're gonna be here tomorrow.

 But it's also understandable why sometimes some of us can't. And I've been there, I've been there, you've been there. We know , this is not to promise us

Just be proud for the days   that we get through, the days that we wake up and make it through the day. And then give yourself grace and give yourself compassion for the days that you're not sure if you're gonna make it through. And that's just cuz that's our fucking, that's our history.

That's where we came out of. And it's a lot, it's a lot to work through.

Very true. I don't want anyone to feel. , listening to this to trigger them too much or feel too discouraged or whatever, , that might come

but you and I are here . Yay. If our US disaster buckets can,

can space for this hopefully that gives other people  the encouragement that, that they can too