Burn After Reading

In this episode, Whisper and Jemima read one of the most heinous publications the Children of God cult put out. A missive published in November of 1986 that was so despicable, cult members were told to burn it immediately after reading it. Plus, we’ve got some exciting news!

 Please listen with caution. This was not by any means easy to read, and we can only imagine that it will be difficult to hear. But one thing for sure, they can’t say they didn’t know. Reach out if you need support.

 www.lalichcenter.org 
(If you want to know why this link is here, listen to the podcast to find out Jemima and Whisper's exciting news!)

Transcript

  Welcome to butterflies and bravery. I'm your host Whisper and I'm here with my lovely co-host, Jemima Lou.

And  Tulu. As you can hear, I'm still dealing with some bronchitis, laryngitis type of things. I sound like a frog. Frog. I frog, I made me uh, how does that song go? You may be a little frog. I don't remember. Anyways, is that the hall? I think so. Isn't it ? I think so. I dunno. 

I tried so hard. Just forget so hard. Yeah, so Jemima and I, we were talking about, okay, we've been talking about chaos a little bit this week because when I re-listened to the last week's podcast, I made a comment about the landscape being somewhat chaotic. And when I say landscape, I meant the landscape of SGAs, services, resources, programs or organizations that are available to us and for cult kids or kids that grew up in cults or or were born in  cults for cult kids.

Exactly.   I think I was making some other point, and so I said something that's actually kind a bigger discussion. , and I said it pretty, just kind of fast. So I just wanted to clarify that

I think that, us SGAs, children of cults we're new on to the scene.  there's never been any of us before, right? There's children of, adult children of alcoholics, adult children of, narcotics. There's adults who have suffered child abuse. There's all these things that have already been there, but no one has any adults for children of cults.

It just hasn't been there. So we are new. Yeah. The whole idea and aspect and thought about us is relatively new. How to start, who's doing programs, what's out there? What services are there? How can we , get resources for ourselves? That's what I thought of in my mind, is the landscape , of what we're building.

And I labeled it as chaotic and right away said, there are organizations that are doing really important work. And I named three of them. I named Safe passage Foundation. I named Counter Cult Coalition and then Dr. Janja Lalich Center. And those are three organizations that , I said are doing important and amazing work.

They're all fantastic organizations that Jemima and I have both benefited from and have worked with and do we do projects with them? We're still working with a lot of them and.  I just wanna make sure that when I was talking about chaos, it was the landscape and not necessarily  the organizations, , the organization, they're doing great. I'm just mean those are the three I know, but what else is there? Yeah, there's a lot of other stuff, . since you reframed the word chaos for me last week, , . I'm seeing that in a little bit of a different light now,  chaos is not necessarily a bad thing.  . It's beginning. Exactly. It's the beginning.   I've been really interested in this one woman who survived, she's escaped the 12 tribes.

. And they're actually a cult that's very similar to us. As far as the way they treat the children, like labor and mental, emotional, spiritual. , as far as I know, there wasn't as blatant sex abuse as ours, but who else?  And because of the way that they were raised very separated, segregated from society.

 When she got out, she started a center . Like a halfway house for these kids, for kids that were trying to escape, which I was like, what? That's amazing. That's incredible.  when I went and I started looking into it,  it didn't sustain itself because again, there's just, people are like, what are kids of cults?

 That's the area that I think is chaotic out there. But like Jemima and I were just talking, and I was saying  chaos is not a bad thing actually. , the Big Bang was very chaotic and it created life. Yeah. You move into a new house that's fucking chaotic, but you're in a new house and you're building something new and you're creating a new life and a new start and over again.

So yeah. Anything that's new actually is going to be chaotic in a sense.  If you read the actual definition of it, it says behavior so unpredictable as to appear random, but it goes on to say, Owing to great sensitivity to small changes and conditions. And in Greek mythology, the first created being was chaos

So it's not a bad thing, it's just a birth. It's like a birth  we're the next civil rights movement. We're the next ones that are coming up and like, hello, we need to be heard. We are here. And some of us are queer.  . No, No. Absolutely.  So yeah it's just like the whole thing's new for all of us.

, it's new for us too, coming out and like, where are we supposed to go? What are we supposed to do? And anybody that's starting these, programs, organizations, they're all doing amazing work  like I said last week, super important. Needs to be done.

But hopefully as we go along and figure things out, there might start being a more narrowing in on the different types of organizations there are. We might start understanding more like,  if you need this, you can go to this organization. If you need this, you can go to that center. If you need this, you can go to that resource, yes. , there's not a whole super clear pathway yet. when someone steps out and goes what do I do?  The rocks are sitting in the dump truck. They just need to be laid out on the path. . But it's in action. We should tell everybody at the end of the podcast our super, super exciting news, , but everybody has to wait until the end.

 There's more . I'm gonna be going through a two day training for public speaking, what I'm terrified about. 

, the trainer called me and he said, change and comfort just don't stay in the same place.   Cannot stay in the same place. And I was like, okay. Yeah. Yep. . . So if you're uncomfortable, if things feel chaotic, maybe it's cuz things are changing.

Cuz things are new, things are happening. Yeah. Not a bad thing. I love it. I love it. . that's so good. That growth and comfort just don't go together. It's like a tree. When it breaks through the roots, it's gotta burst through the ground. It's got a burrow through the ground and go all over and it hurts, but it's growth and it's good.

And butterflies right? They have to, right? They have to fight to get out of their chrysalis. Yeah. Goof goo goo goo . Get the goo into their wings. .  so Whisper had this idea because  we were talking last week about   some of the publications  Yeah.

That came out. In the cult that we were in and the children of God, and one of them that came across  came across as being very suss. Is the  Liberty and Stu Liberty or Stumbling Block,  Liberty or stumbling block? Yes. For our cult, for the Children of God cult there's a couple websites  that have a fairly robust library or resource of all the different publications and quote unquote letters that we grew up with and the things that we are supposed to read, the things that were considered the word of God in our cult.

 They always had these labels.  You could have some letters were called GP, which meant they were for the GE general public, which mean you didn't have to even be in the cult to be able to read it. . And then you had others that were like DO, which that meant disciples only.

So that meant full-time all the way in. You had other publications that the tithe supporters could read , they supported the cult, but they weren't in necessarily the commune homes. And then you had some publications that were for like the Leaders only  the Shepherds.

They called them like, the leaders only kind of publications. And usually when those came, they were meant to be hidden or disposed of.  There was a point in time that they started calling these things BAR publications which meant Burn After Reading. And luckily ,   Liberty or Stumbling Block is a publication that was specifically Burn After Reading and it somehow survived.

So we have it. But it was required reading for every adult in the house. In the home. And the reason why I wanna preface it with that is because there's a lot of times some of the different first generation people that join the cult.  They'll sit there and say well, I didn't know that there was, abuse going on.

And I didn't know that there was, like all these horrible things were going on. I didn't see any of that. I didn't know anything, any of that. , but what what time does it say this , was out? Does it have a date?   1986.  So anybody that was in the cult in 1986, and that was an adult 18 and up or whatever the age was.

 This was required reading. It had to be read by every single adult. And I do remember that very clearly because a couple people, like we talked about it, we really wanted to know what it was about and it was required reading. anybody that was in in 1986 read this and knew exactly what the fuck was going on.

So I think that's important to, to say. So we thought we, we could read it. I think it would be very interesting for, anybody that either doesn't have the time or, wherewithal to go digging for it. . It was something that was very validating to me when I reread it again, a as I am now, it was actually validating that I felt less gas lit  by, what they say in public and then what they were saying to their own,  members.

But before we get into it um, I just wanna put a big warning out there. It was hard for me to read it. It was good, but it was hard for me to read it. It,

it's just hard to read something that, that they knew they were doing and they actually knew how horribly we were hurt, and they actively did nothing about it. That was hard to read, but, , it was also validating that what we've said about our experiences are a hundred percent true . Yeah, so just say anybody that's listening to this, please.

It's, it is not gonna be an easy read, so don't feel bad if you don't, wanna come around listening to this at all. Don't feel bad about that. But for those that do a couple pages, right? It's not too long. I remember when this letter came out, I was in Japan.  I was out witnessing and they all read it and I came back and the adult man that I was in a relationship with at the time, and I was 14 years old had left the commune and I never saw him again.

That's another story. Anyways, that's my perspective of this   you wanna start with the disclaimer,

Yeah.  The www.xfamily.org website. This is called Liberty or Stumbling Block. There's a disclaimer on top.  Publications by the family are archived here for educational purposes.    The content is occasionally sexually explicit, offensive, or promotive of criminal acts, and we collect them to document their existence and wording, but do not condone the points of view or activities.

Original spelling, grammar, and style have been preserved. Where possible liberty or stumbling Block by Sarah Davidito November,   1986 Bar Pub Burn After reading. Dear family, adults, and parents.  If you found that your teen had had some unpleasant sexual experiences, wouldn't you want to try to prevent them encountering or prevent their worrying about encountering the same bad experiences again, if you could. If you learned that many of our family teens today regret having had sex with older adults, both in the past and at present, what would you want to do about it now?

How would you go about helping them to overcome their questions, doubts, and fears about these unpleasant or regrettable experiences? Do you believe you've learned enough love in mercy and understanding with children and others to be able to wisely counsel and encourage young people who feel this way, even if you or other adults may have played a part in allowing this to happen?

Yeah. Your abusers. Yeah, definitely. Your abusers can comfort you, right? That's fantastic. Exactly. That's literally exactly what they're saying. this controversial issue of our teens involvement with older adults has been a great concern to us for a long time. There have been numerous and varied reports of this happening.

Some experiences seem fine and were not hurtful. Others were certainly questionable, but many others were definitely bad and obviously not the Lord. . They're verbiage, see that there have been numerous and varied reports, and yet the public,  they say, oh, there was a few scattered experiences here and there.

and it's right here in black and white. been a great concern for a long time. Yeah. This is 1986. Yep. We of course, believe in God's love and the freedom and liberties of love, sex, and nudity in its proper place and with the proper people. But the actual testimonies and personal opinions from the young people themselves seem to point to the fact that overall older adult sex with young people has not born good fruit.

Sorry. I have to laugh to keep from crying. . Yes. Yes, exactly. You're like, there's an emotion here. It needs to come out. So I'm just gonna laugh , and that will stop the tears momentarily. . Damn. Oh damn. Reading it out loud is like, I read it quietly in my head and I mean, it impacted me, but reading out loud is a whole different like vibe, you get that really heavy, like we know exactly what's going on. Impression. Yeah. Yeah.

Not only have the reported incidents been unpleasant and confusing for the teens, especially girls, but they've been dangerous from a legal standpoint since the system is dead set against it and would love to use it against us. In fact has, in any and every way possible. Responsible, mature of aged teens of legal age may be a different story, but for the record, we want to say that we do not agree with adults having sex with children.

the family should just not do it. Mainly because it's illegal. Mainly not because it's gonna hurt the fucking children. No, No. It's, It's cuz it's illegal. Mainly because it's illegal. Mainly because it's illegal. God. God. They're evil. Fuck. They're evil. That's a punch in the gut, man. It makes you feel like you're not a person.

Yeah. Yeah. Like you're just a commodity. Yep. Absolutely.  It's very sad. Yeah.

Oh, and even though teen sex with adults may be tolerated in some countries, we are against it for young teens in the family as its fruit is more bad than good. If it is illegal, by no means should it be allowed or it could endanger the work of God. There's only a very short time left to do the works of him that sent us, and we dare not endanger that work by risking the wrath of the system upon us for something we could have easily avoided.

Again, not because it's gonna hurt the kids. No, but because of the work and because of the wrath. Cause what's gonna happen to them? Yes, exactly.

It's.

 Nudity and sex are wonderful, beautiful, and we have a good, godly, healthy attitude and belief in it. But adults must refrain from practicing it with youth because it's too touchy with the system and apt to be a questionable experience for the young person.

The best and safest thing we can do is just not to do it at all. If children want to get involved with each other on their own without any encouragement from us, that's a completely different matter and up to them, let's let them grow up happily and naturally. But adults should refrain from any sexual involvement with all underage children and minors.

We recently received honest feedback from some of our teens themselves. Do you remember answering those questionnaires? I do. I do. I fucking do it. Was that the TTC? It was that the ttc, they made us write questionnaires and that's these that they're talking about the sexual experiences.    There's a part of me that would be very interested in reading those. Especially what, like what we wrote, yeah. Because I have no idea what I wrote, but obviously it must have been fucking horrible.  I remember because because we didn't have to put our name on it  we could really say whatever we wanted.

It was  Anonymous. I have no idea what I wrote, but it couldn't have been good because all the things that I  write now about it are just horrible and terrible experiences. And I had more after that too, because by that time I was like  while you're almost 16.

So we'll just slip you in there. Yeah. No, for sure. I remember it very clearly. And the thing about it was that it turned out it wasn't anonymous. Yeah. Because they kept him, they just said that. , and they recognized our handwriting or whatever and I, I got in trouble for it lot later on For what you wrote.

. Yep.   Remember they had me do that whole I had to get separated and secluded and, and  I think I was like on fasting for a whole week. Yeah. Separated from everybody. And they made me rewrite all these things about bitterness and stuff. Yeah, and then they, published it in the  FSM, in the Family magazine.

The entire thing was about me and how I needed to accept what had happened to me. . Yeah. And anyway, sorry. Go on. . I'm sorry. . No, I'm sorry for all of us. This is, yeah. Yeah. I guess if I had finished the sentence, I would've read that. That's when we did . We recently received honest feedback from some of the teens themselves.

When we had the opportunity to read through over 100 teen questionnaires from our first TTCs, it was very heartbreaking to see from especially the teen girls' own testimonies that overall sex has not been a good edifying experience for them as children.  or young teens, sex and children shouldn't even be in the same fucking sentence.

Sex has not been good for them as children. What the fuck That sentence, you're not supposed to have sex with your kids. So

oh, ah, and has left most of them stumbled and fearful. And overall, very regretful of almost every experience they've had with adults, but not with young people, not with their peers.  And that's still fucking lie too . Yeah. Because I was constantly put with people that I just did not wanna have sex with.

I made it clear please, no, that's the one     I was in a home for a little while that there was only one other guy my age. Yeah, me too. I was like 14 at the time.   It was before the TC started.

. And so they wanted me to have sex with him, and I was like, no. He was actually an awful human being. And I said no. And so they spanked me.  because I wouldn't have sex with him. Oh my God. And they spanked me, God. And after that I still refused. . Where did I for you? Where did I get this bravery?

No, not good for me because guess what happened? Oh, they moved her into my room. Oh my God. And they put his bed up next to mine

so that, he could force me whenever he wanted to. ,  they're saying not with young people, not with their peers.  That's not my or yours experience.  And any of the ones that were like required or forced?

Yes. . It wasn't. And that was most of them. Yeah. Because the people you wanted to have sex with, they specifically wouldn't put you with . I don't think I ever got to have sex with the people that I actually wanted to have sex with without sneaking around. At least, I don't think I ever even stuck around.

I think I was too scared. I had chances actually, when I was in the Philippines, I had an opportunity. We went on a mountain climb one of the two times that we left the compound in the Philippines, and I was too scared and I said, no. Yeah. Definitely. Once I, once you get went to the tc, there was no sinking around whatsoever.

No

Oh, sorry. Not all. No. That's just, I'm sorry. My heart breaks for you so much too. So sad. That's so sad.

Okay. Not only girls, but even some of the young male teens too have had all sorts of encounters with adult men,

some system and some not. This may shock some parents and adults to hear what your children have experienced and especially that appears that some of you are guilty in this matter and not the teachers and samples and lovers you may consider yourselves to be.

So this is where the parents were like, I didn't know. Cuz they're Oh, this way shock some of you. So even if before this they said, I didn't know at this point, they knew they.  for some. That's what I mean. Reason though, for some reason though, like my mother didn't think it was happening to me.

Like she thought, okay that's happening to other people, but not to her. Like I don't know how they could have had that. But then again, I guess it's just that cognitive dissonance.    the only conclusion that we can draw from all of this is that not only is it illegal and red hot, surefire dynamite with the system, but it has been emotionally damaging to some and just not handled right, like Maria or Zerby, Zerby said, here's a case where if it's not good, it's bad, so it shouldn't be continued reading. All the girls' viewpoints and questions and fears about negative sex experiences resulting from their encounters with adults proves without a doubt that some adults have been a negative influence on the young people in this area.

Proves, without a doubt,   Children definitely don't, quote unquote need it. Even young teens who are sexy can do it themselves or find another teen. What a weird sentence. Seriously, more often than not, it's usually the adults who are pushing it on them in the wrong way and wrecking our children's whole perspective and attitudes about beautiful God-given pleasures such as love, sex, men, babies, pregnancy and all.

It's interesting that they don't include women in that. Yeah, no. Just men and sex and babies. Yep. Isn't that interesting?  That's what they didn't want damaged, was our perspectives of sex. And babies and pregnancies like you are wrecking them for them to be growing up and be the little like baby factories that we expect them to be when they grow up.

That's what they were concerned about. They, it has nothing to do with our self-esteem or, like all the things that gets so crushed when you've been, sexually abused. . None. None of that to do. They just didn't want us to think badly about sex. That was the whole thing.

It also speaks to the  patriarchal society that it was Yeah, exactly.

   A special heavenly sample of love that we all wish to bless our new generation with may be degenerating to some, to almost the same worldly depths we adults experienced in the system so they knew they were raping us.

In other words, that's what I hear right there. Yep.  May be degenerating. ,  so what can we do about it now? Unless an adult is very spiritually and emotionally mature and can intimately fellowship with a teen, not a child, in a beautiful godly way. For all the reasons stated above, we feel it best.

We now suggest no further sexual involvement at all between adults and underage young people. There's still that. Unless right there, though, first.   It doesn't lead with let's not do it. It leads with, unless, yeah.

Like they're still saying that there were some of this could work. Yeah. If it wasn't for the system, yes. As long as they're teen, like 13 and up. Is that what that means? Yeah.

teen on the end of her name. All right, let's go . Oh, what? And and here we go into the victim blaming. Yep. Boom. Boom.  It's true that teen girls can be quite flirty and act as if they really need it and want it. They act like they're really hinting for it, but then when they get it from some male adult, the majority of them don't like it in the end and regret having done it the majority.

The problem is that they seem to press for it and may even ask for it. They act like they want it, but it presents a dilemma because in most cases it's not been good for them.

The rape culture that is dripping in that sentence is almost unbelievable.

It's a dilemma. Yeah. Because they're asking for it.  It's such a heartbreak to read on these teen questionnaires as an overall majority opinion by especially the younger girls, that almost everyone in stating that their true feelings about adults sharing time said, I regretted it afterwards. Almost everyone. Almost everyone. And then they fucking lie and say it wasn't a widespread problem when in their own words, Almost every, almost everyone sad

they knew what they were doing to us

  as a heart of a, as hard of a read as this is,

it really helps to, be able to, not feel so gas lit by some, the conversation you end up having with, in the first generation people that joined Yeah. Where they're all like, didn't know, didn't happen. It wasn't widespread, blah, blah, blah. No

They knew and they knew for a long time.

 We don't carry on trying to carry on. We don't want to instill the idea in our children that it's some kind of need or obligation or  mandatory performance because after all they don't really need it. And most system kids don't really get all that much at such a young age either such a young age, although Dad or Berg has written about teens and even younger children's sexual interest at that age.

these interests can be satisfied by a natural and open attitude with others their own age. It's not until they're older that they seem to be sincerely interested enough to actually get involved on their own initiative with someone older than they are. And even at that judging from the survey that was done, it appears the best policy would be better.

No intimate fellowship of teens and adults than damaging intimate fellowship.

  Many adults, sad to say, don't seem to have the right attitude and behavior and unselfish concern about it. Many, they didn't say some, they said many adults, sad to say, don't seem to have the right attitude and behavior and unselfish concern about it, especially when it's involving a young person's first sexual experience.

Jesus fucking Christ.

It's these initial experiences that affect their lives and attitude From then on about these things, and in many cases question fears and phobias have resulted, brethren, this ought not so to be

  Are you okay? Yeah, I'm okay. Just sad.  No.

   It's really fucked up too. Their little blurb box says Liberty is wrong. When it hinders a weaker one,

that's just so fucked up. it's not wrong. It's only because you know they're weak and you're hurting them. Yeah. Oh, keep in mind that at the time of this publication, the age that they were, they moved it up to was 16. Yeah.  I was  14 in Japan.

And yeah, I was still having sex with adults after this for sure. Because this came out shortly after I arrived in Japan, like  maybe three months or so. Yeah. Because I went straight from the TTC to, to Tokyo. And I went to the HCS after this, cuz I landed in the landing home there.

And that was where I had my big adult relationship that I was talking about earlier. Yeah. And right after that they moved me to,  to the school.  I thought that I had my timeline wrong, and now I'm realizing that I wasn't wrong at all. It was definitely after this letter. they put me on the sharing schedule with an adult male Mexican guy.

And that was the one that like, he was trying to penetrate me and I'm like stop. It hurts. It hurts. I don't know if he stopped. I can't remember anything else, but I know I was only 14 then still. And that was definitely after this.  , we don't have to go into all the details and cite examples here. Whisper and I just did . . We did it for him. At least we did from our perspective. And that is something that we own.

Suffice it to say that if meat causes a sister to stumble, then don't eat meat anymore.

That's kinda a really , it's kinda a really weird way of putting it. Cause meat, like the man meat, like your, your tube steak . If meat causes a sister to stumble like, damn, that's a big meat if you're stumbling over it. , . Sorry, my mind needed a little comic levity there. So

don't stumble on that meat. . It's my meat in a box.  my box meat. Oh god. Okay. . Have you ever heard that? Have you ever heard that song? My Detachable Penis? I can't remember who it five, but it's all about how I had my detachable penis and I lost it at a party and I had to go back and get it

when the that song was popular. My detachable. Oh my God. When you said me in a box, I was like I was thinking that the SNL song, you know My Dick in a Box. Oh God, yes, that's right. Yes. I do remember that. I love that song. Funny. That's . I don't think I remember. Oh God. Yeah. You have to look. No, I'm curious.  I have to find out who wrote it now? Yeah. . I'm attach of Penis , patchable penis, king Missile.

I woke up this morning with the bat hanging word. Wait, wait, wait. The guy who sings it, his name is King Missile. King Missile. Yeah, Yeah. I woke up this morning with a bad hangover and my penis was missing again. That happens all the time. It's detachable. This comes in handy a lot of the time. I can leave it home when I think it's gonna get me in trouble, or I can rent it out when I don't need it.

But now, and then I go to a party and get drunk, and the next morning I can't. For the life of me remember what I did with it first. I looked around in my apartment and I couldn't find it. So I called up the place where the party was. They hadn't seen it either. I asked them to check the medicine cabinet, cause for some reason I leave it there sometimes, but not this time.

So I told them if it pops up to let me know. I called a few people who were at the party, but they were no help either. I was starting to get desperate. I really don't like being without my penis for too long. . It makes me feel like less of a man and I really hate having to sit down every time I take a leak.

after a few hours of searching the house and calling everyone I could think of, I was starting to get very depressed. So I went to the Kiev and ate breakfast. Then as I walked down second Avenue towards St. Mark's place where all those people sell, used books, another junk on the street. I saw my penis lying on a blanket next to a broken toaster oven.

Some guy was selling it. I had to buy it off him. He wanted 22 bucks, but I talked him down to 17. I took it home, washed it off, and put it back on. I was happy again, complete. People sometimes tell me I should get it permanently attached, but I know even though sometimes it's a pain in the ass, I like having a detachable penis,

I can't believe they've never heard it. Okay, so you have to listen to it afterwards. 

I haven't heard the song in like 20 years, to be honest with you.  Listen to it. Okay, so that was your comic comic levity break so that you don't have to cry too much for this podcast. , take a breath.

Unplanned comic levity. Now we can jump back into this. Here we go, . Okay, we're back on the stumbling meat. That's right, the stumbling meat. That's how we got there. . A good tree will bear good fruit, and if it doesn't, we should examine the tree in almost every one. In almost every one. Of especially the girls' reactions about sexual experiences with older people.

They said they regretted it afterwards or didn't really want to go through with it or thought that the adult party was doing it for themselves. They still are really interested in the opposite sex of their own age, which after all is more normal and natural. But some of them are even fearful about getting pregnant and having babies, some , although many of the girls are eagerly looking forward to having babies in heaven.

We were . Okay. I wasn't, that was the last fucking thing on my mind was having babies in fucking heaven. Like I don't even think about that. Ooh, maybe there was, I don't know, but not me. They're really not so anxious to be pregnant in their early teen years. Oh, who the fuck? . Damn. That's a really, wow.

You drew that conclusion on your own . This would probably indicate that they've been adversely affected somehow, and it appears that this attitude probably stems from the adult sample and conversation around the teens. The teen boys seem to enjoy sex, but have far less experience than the girls, unless they're 15 or 16 or over.

In other words, the 12, 13, and 14 year olds had less experience, but the 15 and 16 year olds had plenty, and that's the age that we were, oh I turned 14 on the day of the TT C, which is when we wrote these things. Yeah. most of the teen boys have not been nearly as involved with sex with adults as the girls have.

Teen girls, however, easily fall in love with older men. This is common with them, really, and it seems very important that we try to closely shepherd our teen girls and encourage them to favor fellowship with good spiritual shepherds. Okay, shepherds, just for clarification, here was usually adults, usually old fucking men.

Okay. So they're encouraging us right here. After all, they just. To favor fellowship with good SP fellowship with sex with good spiritual shepherds who will only be a good influence on them so they won't become victims of any further bad experiences as teens are extremely sensitive and easily sway and influenced by the adults around them will know fucking shit.

Dad has already said Dad is Berg. Berg has already said quite a bit about guarding our children from the system, and in this case it seems we have to take steps to protect them from some of our own misguided adults who would take advantage of them to fulfill their own selfish lusts or just plain unwise adults who aren't spiritually mature enough to be allowed the responsibility of any one of our precious teens.

If you let some of these things soak in, you're just like, what? In the actual fuck? Yeah.

It should be emphasized to our teens and children that they need do nothing against their will. They can always say no, really? Cuz that's what we got spanked for and put in isolation. Talk about bonded choice, huh uh. they can always say no and in fact it is preferable that they not indulge in sex with older adults.

It's even strongly discouraged for the reasons already given above. But they can have fellowship with the opposite sex of their own age and not worry about demands or obligations or sharing    sharing  with sex with older people at all until they're older and they want to, even those who really want to now but are still underage, are just going to have to wait.

However, it's obviously not the children or teens that, for the most part, need the breaks applied. It's the adults and especially the men. They acknowledge it. Yep. Right there.

Yep. But still, they sit there like right?

Strongly discouraged. Favor fellowship with good spiritual shepherds. Yeah. It wa it wasn't even a straight out from this. No. Anyways,

young folks being affectionate with each other is natural and healthy as long as they're not hurting each other, but let's keep it within the confines of their own age. Let's set the record straight. And now that youth with youth and teens with teens is the normal, natural type of loving sex that we and even the system would expect and get back to the beautiful law of love that Jesus and Dad Berg have so lovingly taught and shared with us.

Here's a quote from Berg. To whom can we give the most liberty, the lion or the lamb? Will you follow the shepherd as a lamb into greener pastures and be content to enjoy all things at his hand, or will you rage as a ravenous beast? A loose lion praying upon the lambs themselves and devouring in destroying the flock?

Are you a lion or a lamb, a wolf, or one of the flock? Will you feed and follow in love and lamb together with the shepherd, or will you rage and devour and tear and destroy scatter the flock and drive them from the shepherd's fold? The answer is up to you. Whether you have the lamb like gentle loving nature of the shepherd himself, which loves rescues, helps and heals and truly cares for the sheep or the evil wolf, like nature of the destroyer who runs and rips and nashes with his teeth only to selfishly destroy devour harm and scatter the flock.

The answer is up to you.

What the fuck does I have to do with any what does I have to do with this? Doesn't have anything to do with it at all. What are they saying? Also, I'm a little terrified by how easily it was to read that. ,  that style of writing.

Yeah. Not that it was easy mentally to read it. . Like muscle memory, right? Yeah. You're used to the, in the inflections in the way that he spoke yeah, because ever since the time we could speak or read, we had to read in public. We'd go around and read like a paragraph of it each Yeah.

To make sure we weren't falling asleep and whatnot,  we were steeped in that from birth. Yep. Fucking garbage . All those fucking awful run on sentences. Jesus. I know, right? It's not even good  so bad. Yeah. I don't know what the, I don't know what I mean if they're, I don't know what that was about, but, or how it had to do with this, but anyways.

Okay. But from what I get from that, they're saying you can choose to either go ahead and keep raping them or be nice to them. That's my take from that

Oh. I don't know. Another little warning to adults is to also guard our children and teens without, in public, there have been  far too many reports of teens left on their own to go witnessing or out at night alone with another teen or out with some adult who's not watching them closely and lets them go off on their own, who have been approached and molested by  Stites interesting. That it's only when the System Heights did it that they called it molesting, right? Yeah, exactly. It's not molesting when we do it because we're doing it in love, but when they do it, yeah. But when Stites do it, then it's, that's right. Then they're molesting them their child molesters, not us ,  be on guard even about their being alone in public bathrooms, which seem to be a primary target for this type of thing. . It's a wicked world out there, , and our children  already have to have enough exposure to it all, just every day when without witnessing. So please do prayerfully and carefully guard your children and teens from anything serious when out in the enemy's territory, , and especially young, pretty preteen teenage girls.

We as parents and adults should definitely teach our preteens and teens what's legal and accepted system behavior for them and what's not accepted among the system. I e nudity in public . Sorry. Good. I think I had that one right away. Like I didn't need to be taught that one

Oh my God. In the same way our children and teens should be  made aware of and taught what's acceptable behavior to expect from system rights and what's not. Let's teach them to be aware of the devil's devices. Let's teach should take advantage of them. So please do guard your children, adults.

Don't let them out of your sight when out witnessing or in the system, please be prayerfully. Use wisdom,  con the cost and make positively sure that all things are done in God's love. May God give us great wisdom, faith and love as we teach and train our children. Then nurture an admonition of the Lord according to His law of love.

  It's really interesting that they threw in those last couple paragraphs all about but be careful about what's outside. Yeah, exactly. Like they like, they just moved on. . Anyway, so that, that was that one. Yeah. . That's some fucked up shit, man. You don't realize how fucked up it is to me it was reading it out loud was like, yeah,

We had some positivity for, oh yeah, our surprise

We do have the positivity for the ending. Yay. Yay. We rehashed the hash and we ate it and regurgitated it and we're onto dessert. Ladies and gentlemen. , here comes your pie.

 We know that was a heavy read, and it, there's lots of different ways that it might react inside of you. I, to me it brought a lot of different emotions up. Some of it was, that validation of they fucking knew and some of it was a law was there was a lot of anger of they fucking knew.

. And then, yeah, some of it is just that sorrow as well of they knew and they did nothing. I know from the work, like from my, my, my day-to-day job now, like I know that one of the reasons why child abuse cases are hard to convict is because  in general, it doesn't leave physical  evidence because, Our bodies are, stretchable and malleable.

And so

The leg that they always would stand on of all our they took some of the kids and they examined them and they didn't see anything . It's yeah, that's what happens to like 86% of the children who have had sexual abuse. It doesn't show up physically. ,  If this was a lot and those kind of things are rumbling around in your brain or you're having a difficult time, reach out to somebody, if you need even just for a hug, or you can always c with Jamima and I  anytime you want to. .  I definitely didn't wanna read that just for the sake of look how gross they are.

I think it's good for us to hear that they knew what they were doing.  Because sometimes our conversations with fga, with the first generation, they can gaslight us into thinking that we're the one who's making shit up. That we're making shit up when they knew it.

Yeah, we were 14, 15 back then. They know that's how many years they know, they've known that it has happened.  And never tried to give any type of, they never they never even reached out and addressed the, to the, all the people that answered those, they never addressed it to us ever.

Think about that. Imagine like your kid's oh yeah, be guess what? I've had this abuse and that abuse and this abuse. And you're like, oh, okay, I'll just tell him to stop doing it. And then

you might wanna get your kid into fucking therapy. Yeah.  or move them out of the home or whatever. Anyways, they failed us on so many levels, on so many levels, and I think as hard as it is to hear it it is important that we know that it's true. It's true that they knew how badly we were scarred and how badly we were hurt.

But yeah, again, . Please know anyone that's listening to this and then made it through this far, Jemima  we think you're very brave for sticking around and listening to this. And hopefully it's more helpful than not  to hear it. But either way, if anybody needs to reach out to us, like for sure we're there for you anytime you need.

Yes. And our pie is just gonna really build on that if you grew up in a cult or were born in a cult, or had a cult experience as a child whisper and I have been invited by the Lolich Center to start. Moderating a discussion group on Wednesday evenings. Every other Wednesday, right?

Twice a month. Yep. Starting on March 1st, right? Yes. Just a few days away. Just a few days away. . Super exciting. So if you want to, we'll talk more about the group in a second, but I'm gonna mention this a few times just so you can make sure you get, if you want to get in, just go to lolich center.org. That's la l i c h center.org.

And there's a place you can navigate to, I, it's pretty easy to navigate and find. We'll put a link in the transcript. Yes. Yes. We'll drop a link in the blurb and in the transcript. And, You just go there and basically all that's required is a short chat with one of the representatives of the Lodge Center just to make sure that it's a good fit for us and for you because we want to keep it a very safe space for survivors to be able to talk freely about their experiences, not having to translate yourself because everyone there will have have had a Celtic experience as a child as well, and will most likely in some way be able to relate.

   la l i c h center.org. And there is a small fee, but if you cannot afford it, please don't think that you can't come. There are scholarships available. So if you need that, you can talk to the representative about that when you talk to them. Yep, absolutely. And. . So on the other Wednesday that we're not doing that.

Yes. Since since it's Wednesday evenings and we're gonna be doing, we're gonna be moderating that born in a cult group every other Wednesday Jem. And I thought that we could open up the other  Wednesday and start, it would be a good space to open up our discussion for children of God and see.

Survivors. Survivors. Yeah. Yes. So we will put that information as well in, in the blurb and let everybody know. And yeah. So if you are feeling, like you'd like to just have a little bit more connection or a little bit more space to breathe  we're super honored that we got asked to help moderate the group for the knowledge center.

And for that reason, we also want to, extend that, to people that if you might not feel comfortable with people that are from a, like from different cults and you would prefer it to be just, ex children of God kids. We've got that for you too.

Yes. That's awesome. . Everybody needs a community. It's like one of the most basic needs of humanity is to be able to connect. . And I think sometimes as cult kids, we find that very difficult to do. You can tend to feel alone out there. . And so we just want you to know that you are not alone.

And we've been through the Meyer Wallowed. Through the Meyer. And we understand, and it's not a therapy group. It's not No. It's just a place where you can just feel safe to come and be seen and be heard. Even if you don't wanna talk, you can just sit there and listen too and see if, you can click with it and it makes you feel like You're not so alone. That's the goal is for all of us not to feel so alone. Absolutely. Connection is the oldest form of healing. That's right.  March 1st that's gonna be Wednesday evening at 5:00 PM Pacific Standard time here for the United States. So hopefully that's enough to fit most people even on the east Coast cuz that'll be what 8:00 PM 

Depending on where you are in the world that would be, I don't have all the world talk clocks in front of me right now, but hopefully, hopefully that'll be something that, if you're overseas and you wanna be able to make it, it'll be a time that you can.

And so that's March 1st. Is the knowledge Center born in cult?  discussion group. And then March 8th will be the, our First Children of God, born and Children of God. Discussion group. Woohoo. Yay, . Exciting. , if you're not tired and uh, tired of listening to us talk , . No.

I'm joking. I'm joking. We're actually not gonna probably, we're not really gonna be talking much, unless it's just us there, then we'll probably talk. But

we're mainly listening. Yeah. Yeah. Just a place to gather that. . Yep. All righty then, shall we Bid everyone a rdu?  To you and you and you

And stay brave and remember that every butterfly was once a caterpillar That's right. And struggled . To become a butterfly. To become a butterfly.

Every butterfly flying around as a warrior. Yep. Warrior butterflies. There we go. That's right, . All right. Take care, everybody.