Humlity's Roar and The Ant Hill

Sometimes a whisper can be louder than a roar. Join us this week as we chat about what's been going on in our worlds. Jemima talks about a fall at work and what that might mean for her in the near future. Then Whisper tells us how she learned that humility can look very differently than we may think. We close this episode with Jemima's "The Ant Hill", inspired by Dr. Gabor Mate's latest book, The Myth Of Normal. 

Transcript

 📍  something came up in my Facebook  from I don't know,  eight years ago,  something around there. And I had posted something and I made this comment about I guess I don't want a boring life.

And I was like, God, Damnit was for you. Jinx yourself, . It's all your fault,

But yes, there's nothing boring. Our life, which is interesting because we're not actually, also not doing that much. So

it seems like we're always not doing that much. No . Then you're like, Wait, why am I doing all this? My gosh, my daughter laid into me a little bit today because  I've been having some issues with sleep and I had a kind of a terrible conversation , with a doctor and I was telling her about it and she was like you know the reason why you have insomnia, right?

 Because you never stopped working. I wake up in the morning and you're working. I go to bed at night and you're working . I was like, Yeah, could be that

She was like, Mom, you've got to get a hold of this.

I have the same problem because I'm sitting here thinking about, Okay, I'm gonna be down for three months during the knee surgery, and instead of being like, Oh, this will be a nice time to rest, first thing I'm like, How can I find out how to work? How can I work during this time? , when I had my surgery I had like plans out the WA zoo, like I Oh yeah.

Oh yeah. I had the whole plan how much work you were gonna get done  and how did that go?  My guts for spilling open. Yeah. Yeah. Did you get all that work done ? Yes. In some ways. 

 okay, so for all our listeners, um, I had a fall at work a while back, and I've had a bad knee for many years. Many years. Yeah. Yes. I, My original injury to my knee was in 1996, in January of 1996 in the Arctic Circle in a Russian orphanage performing on stage, jumping around, something went snap.

I flopped to the ground, crawled off the stage. The doctor actually was like did it swell up right afterwards? I was like, Honestly, I don't know. , , we were taught not to pay any attention whatsoever to our bodies, to anything. we were  raised like robot soldiers, You hurt yourself, you get up, you keep on going until you're falling down and then you might get to go lay down or something, but probably we'll just be told to get the fuck up and keep going. So I took a fall at work, hurt my knee, and I had an MRI and they said I had a torn acl, a torn meniscus, and  severe arthritis,  What's a meniscus? I don't even know what that is. What's a, Oh, I'll tell you.

I'll tell you about the meniscus . I found out what's a meniscus and what your knee looks like. That'd be good. Cat name meniscus. Yeah So I got torn ecl, torn meniscus, severe arthritis, and a baker cyst, which is from the severe arthritis, which is from the meniscal tear, 

 The doctor says he thinks a tore my acl.  That was the original injury. Okay. Yeah. First of all, I walked around for 25 years with a torn acl. Not only that, but I've worked on my feet for the last 20 years with a torn acl . You're like, you're gonna be in there with the football team, right?

I'm like, Shut the up. . So he goes, he's so did it ever bother you? And I was like yeah. It hurt, I wasn't that mad. I just kept on going. I'm like once in a while it would swell up, but it would always go away. , And he said your arthritis is very advanced.

Oh my gosh. Sorry. So So the thing that I found extremely funny about your diagnosis,  Well, at the same time, extremely sad,  we go into a therapist and they're like, I'm not sure why you're alive. You're not supposed to be alive.

This doesn't compute. And you go to your doctor, like with your knee and they're like, You shouldn't be able to be washing on me. . Yeah. I talked to the workers comp lady, she called me, she's all I just wanna make sure that you got this appointment and all that, because they moved it and stuff.

And , we actually went on the wrong day. I know. . Yeah. That was part of the fun too. But it was the day before, so we just went ahead and went back the next day, which is a hundred, 140 miles round trip. it's not I'm just driving to the store anyway. She goes after seeing your MRI and like talking to you, because I had to explain a little bit about my life because of the way that I was hurt and why I didn't go to the doctor and all of this kind of stuff.

And she goes, I can't believe that you're walking.  I don't understand how,  you shouldn't be able to walk. You shouldn't be able to walk. And not only are you walking, but you're working full time.  I don't understand how this is possible.  You are such a trooper.

She goes, I just want you to know that you are really like blowing my mind right now. , You seriously? I have really blown me away. And I'm just like, Oh, okay. . Yeah. Because it's like Yes, I know you're giving it to me as a compliment and I will take  it in as that.

but there's also this side of me that knows wow, I am really comfortable living in pain and Yes, . That is exactly exact. 

 He said, I've been a bone doctor for 30 years, . And he says, Your arthritis is very advanced. And so he thinks I tore my meniscus when I fell. at work a while back, So your knee has One top part, one bottom part. So the little bits that are in between are the meniscus. Oh, on both sides. So then the ACL comes down through the middle of it.

And so just a torn acl. No problem. Just go in there and fix it up real quick. Easy peasy. You can walk straight out of the hospital like, it's not even that, that bad. The torn meniscus. He goes yeah, we could just fix it, but it's still gonna hurt. Your knee's still gonna hurt because the arthritis is still gonna be there.

So he said the only route for proper healing is a full knee replacement. Insane. Yeah. And then, so it's three months, three months down. It's on workman's comp. So you know, I'm not, I'm gonna have nothing but . I'm  already surviving on a string. So I'm obviously, first thoughts is , what am I gonna do to supplement my income?

Yeah, I'm sure I'll figure it out. I'll do listening service.  I'll do some campaigning for B and b. I'll do tons of social media, like everything, cuz I like social media anyways  so that's a lot of my plans for while I'm down. And then of course trying to rest, which I'm terrible at.

I don't even know how that's gonna happen. But I'll rest for one day and start feeling guilty.

you should be more productive. Stop laying there doing nothing. .  When they replace the knee, they're essentially replacing the socket thing, right? The ball socket.  It depends on how much of it is arthritic.

 I don't know what the surgery entails. I'm sure I'll be finding out eventually here. Yeah.  The thing about being flat on your, as. For whatever reason, even if you are doing a lot of things and you do get some stuff accomplished,  obviously, but there's that element of, of self-reflection that you don't get otherwise.

Cause , we have busyness and confusion and challenges  that stuff is all throughout the day. As well as all our work. But when you're in bed, you can be busy,  you can work but the constant movement and the scheduling and like all of that sort of quiets down. 

yeah, . Yeah. Super fun. So how's life with you, ? You don't need any new body parts, do you?

Not so far. Good. Good. My, my chub insulates me . Jim was like, I was sure I would be bionic before you. Dear   said that, That's funny. He's like, I knew it was bad dear, but I didn't know it was that bad. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Now he's What can I do? How can I help you?

And I always thought I was a huge weenie.

I always thought it was a huge weenie. I did, I always thought it was a huge freaking weenie like, man, my pain tolerance must be really fucking low because this hurts and that hurts and ouch out. Ouch. And now I'm like, Wait a tick. I don't think I'm a fucking weenie at all. . No. I we are not , but you get those, Yeah.

In your head you're a fucking pussy. You should be dealing with this a lot better than that. No inner critic, you've been carrying that who way too many years. And  I guess at the end of the day, it's also gonna be really nice to have that pain be better.

Yeah. Because it's been,  getting worse and worse  for the last Probably four years.  Where I've  been incapacitated from it.   Yeah, it is gonna be really nice not to have that.

 So picking up Michaela. Yeah. Tell me the story. . Quite a fiasco. Super fun. But you've been picking up Makayla for  One month now?  Finally materialized. We got there. No problem. Yeah. Easy peasy. Lemon squeezy. Had a great time. Everything. Went to leave. Got about 30 miles down the road.

Stopped cuz McKayla had to go to the bathroom.   and we left a backpack back in the room. It was up on the shelf and we all did like a eye scan and a down scan, but we didn't do an up scan. So we drove all the way back for the backpack. We got back there and they had it, grabbed it, turned around. Everything's great. They were sleeping peacefully in the back cuz Tim's pickup is just a 1, 2, 3 seater. Yeah. So we had three dogs, two cats, and McKayla and her boyfriend in the back, Oh, sorry.

Two dogs, two cats, McKayla and her boyfriend in the back, Tim, his dog, and me in the front. Everything was fun. Everybody was laying down, sleeping. We just kept looking back and just seeing little heads just barely wobbling around . And then all of a sudden I look back and I'm freaking mom,

MoMA's just like freaking out.  Shaking your head and back and forth. We're like, what happens? And we pull over Tammy, one of the dogs. , had a nice diarrhea.  We had them in the back with blankets and cushions and all that. She just fucking shit on everything.

Diarrhea all over. McKayla woke up  out of a dead sleep with shit all over her coat, all over her purse,  her sweats,  her socks, all over the blanket and the cushions. , anybody probably covered in shit would've woke up dead out of sleep like that. Like what the fuck is going on?

Oh my God. Of course. And yeah, I don't know. So we got it. All shit smells worse than people, shit even. Oh no. Yes. It was very rain. Oh my God. And total diarrhea everywhere. Just, oh my naar. So we got everybody changed, disposed of the poop . We lost two cushions in a towel to the fight of the poop.

the poop fight.  lost two, two cushions in a towel. And oh, then we were on our way and that was it. We got home and. . That's no . Gosh. Welcome to Idaho

Every, everyone like goes their room . Yep. Not talking to anybody. 

What else have you been up to?   Just working and finding out that my knee doesn't work and picking up my daughter. I'm so sorry.  I've been really busy, but I, there's never a time that I'm not really busy.

Yeah. We're ramping up for, the holiday season and a lot of stuff starts going on and I five, it's the first time  we're gonna do  a little Christmas fundraiser obviously it's a non-profit organization. We run completely and wholly on, on generous donations from our donors. And sometimes depending on what the situation is, the donors they get a little bit more involved or a little bit more precise maybe about what kind of what they're trying to do, in what way they're trying to help us.

So last month   one of our supporters they're like, Let's hold a  barbecue, like sw our backyard. And people can invite people. It'll be a party. And then you can explain to them like what you guys. Hugely successful. It was really, it was a really nice time, long, all night.

But yeah, it was really cool. Very successful. We met so many new people. It was really nice. And  one of the new people that we met there is  this fellow who's very involved in his community. And he started  a,, I don't know, like shop local he wants to keep people from  leaving our community  , he has that focus

 His main job that he does is he has a  big mattress warehouse. He's  very good friends still with his ex-wife,  and  then together came to us , we wanna throw a fundraising holiday party. And we're like, Great. And he's like, And we're gonna hold it in my mattress store,

 He said that they've had of other events there, 

but it's just, it's really funny.  The first thing I thought of was like, Okay, there's gonna be alcohol in this party. And Mattresses. Mattresses. I was like, Oh, we might wanna keep people away from the beds. Not only because about people would, might fall asleep where that was going, but it was just, it's just a really interesting place to have a party.

Yeah. In a mattress store. So  we're getting ready for that and we're also getting ready for a possible merger. Or partnership or however this ends up shaking out to  this very  large organization.  Their donations and the things that they receive and the revenue is  over a million dollars every year.

So they're big, they're called International Sanctuary and they have  these rescue centers. They're not rescue centers. They are like aftercare centers, they have one in the Philippines. They have one in Tijuana. They have one in India.  And they used to have one, , here in states,  but during the pandemic,  they couldn't sustain it.

 It was a model that was  unsustainable because of the  cost that it is to live here in the United States versus to live somewhere like India or of the Philippines.  The person that started the organization in the first place is a woman  very fundamentally religious,  very dedicated to their church and their belief , and everything like that.

And so that was one of the foundations that was built on. But then the other was, and  I appreciate this idea, this thought of  we're going to, have these women that are  rescued  and then what are we gonna do with 'em? Like you can't just Oh, , I'm glad you're outta that house.

You later, so , that's why they created these centers and these women make jewelry for the organization to sell. And that's where a large portion of  their revenue  comes from. Is the jewelry, which obviously that makes sense and everything I was telling a friend earlier this week, and I said,  I know that the income that they're getting is well above what most people in those countries are gonna be getting.

 They're definitely being paid a living wage and then some, but at the same time , they're employed by the same people that they're dependent on. And , there's a little bit of a power dynamic there that I personally wouldn't be comfortable with.

 When we first started having these talks I think  I understood that we were gonna be our own entity and they were gonna sort of like bring us into their umbrella, but we were gonna stay an entity. . But in one of our meetings the other day  our executive director made the comment about  yeah, so our website is gonna redirect to their website.

And, she's like,   does that make sense? You whispered like, Da . And I'm like, my jaws here on the desk. And I'm like, Okay, first of all, that's my website that I build . Second of all, that means we are not gonna have a front facing to the public.

That means   we've been absorbed into the board They do great things. There's a lot of wonderful people there, but. Their focus. And our focus is really actually at the end of the day, different.

One of the things is that  they only employ, help women.  And human trafficking is not just sex trafficking.  Labor trafficking is a very real thing. And they're just as stuck in a horrible situation. And  they'd spent a year coming up with this new mission statement.

And the mission statement was to be here to help a woman be all that her potential can be. Something like that.   When our executive director talked to their CEOs, like .  We help men too. . Like . Not to mention also men can be sex trafficked.

Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. Exactly. Men are sex trafficked too. Yeah. So apparently that was. Big news for them,  they haven't been there for very long about a year. And although they've been in nonprofits  this is their first sort of  touch of human trafficking.

  Then afterwards she came to me directly cuz anything that goes out,  they always run it past me because I'm the survivor. Like,  is this wording correctly?  And she asked me , What do you think about that statement? And I was like,

, Okay So first of all yes, there's the whole genderization of that because  you're not just  excluding male presenting people, but you're excluding non-binary people.   All the other expressions of gender that people have.

You're And I don't feel at all comfortable with that whatsoever, and that's really problematic for me.  I'd done a little bit more of a deep dive on their website and , also our mission and our focus has always been so much on.

  Giving survivors support, offering them support or resources, so that they can build this life for themselves. And  we've always had that sort of innate respect of this is a remarkable human being that was in an extremely,  horrible situation, but that doesn't diminish who they are, what they're capable of, their intelligence, whatever.

It doesn't diminish any of that. And I've always felt  passionate about them because  to me, they're getting it right. What Survivors need Is resources and support to  make those gains. To make those steps.

And  the other statement, it sounds so much  like that sort of here we go to save the day . Yeah. Like that savior complex kind of a thing    and the other thing is that such a big portion of their outreach, their messaging their marketing is all  circling around this jewelry and

 I was supposed to have a meeting with the executive director about volunteers,  something completely different. But  we got on Zoom and she asked me , Are you okay? And I had one of those moments where I was like, this is gonna be a fork in the road,

I can go the one direction, which I usually go, which is suck it up, shut up, and just, Carry on and come with me. But maybe because  this matters so much to me, maybe because  I'm surrounded by incredible people for the first time in my life, I'm working with a group of people that are just incredible and make me feel like family and make me feel, appreciated and seen and  all the things.

So  I was like, Yeah, nope, I'm not okay. . And I just fell apart and I started crying because,  I told her  that I acknowledged the fact that, some of this is just my own fears. The abandonment of  this is finally something good in my life and it's gonna be taken.

. But then I told her, I said, I'm gonna be super honest with you this other organization, , nothing against them, they just don't align with my values. And if they had come to me and said we'd like to offer you a full time job list, I'd be like, Uhuh, nope. No way.

When you go on their website, for example,  I brought this up to  my executive director as well.  When you go on their website, , they're about us. And  they only have board members listed.

There's no visibility of anybody else  any other of the volunteers or whoever they might be that like are there the majority  of it. It's just all this jewelry, Julie and I, and I told her, and that was the other thing I'm freaking out about a little bit because it sounds now from the things that some of these little hints and whatever that's been dropped, it sounds like we're gonna be much more absorbed into them than I originally thought.

Because I had given the, the green light when we first started talking about this, like yellow. Why not? Because my understanding is like we are going to   represent them  in the United States, but we are going to be ourselves too. And then they are, like they're gonna become , part of our funding.

But things that were going on, it was like no. They're  absorbing us into them. And I was just freaking out. Cause I was like, I don't wanna go back into a place where  I'm marketing jewelry to people.  How did I go from standing at town halls and telling people  this is a problem and let's come together to over selling jewelry.

I'm like, no. I, So I had a big forgotten.

 She listened to me so much and she's like,  I'm actually glad to hear you say all this because I  know that some of my own person hesitation about what's going on is valid as well because, that's some of the thoughts that's come around then.

And then she said the thing that  anybody in any relationship,  whatsoever wants to hear. She said the most important thing is that

  That you're here, that's the most important thing to me. And I can walk away from that easily. That's not important to me. It's important that you're here and that the other couple people that are with us, and  it was a  wonderful outcome of speaking up and really actually saying my voice,   I was really passionate and sharing  my views with her and she was just like, Cool. Okay. That's how you feel.   That's part of the consideration. That's where we're gonna go. I was like, Oh, wow. And what's funny about it is that because the way that we were raised, I think I had this mentality of by coming in i'll meek and like, hell sort of made me, you know,  that was my idea of humility yeah. .  Or, that was what was presented to us as humility, , whereas this exchange that we had the experience was extremely humbling.  I think it was because  when people come together, in values and in empathy   , there becomes, that sense of community and it takes you out of your individualness.

 And that's humbling   I don't know how to take compliments. I don't know what to do when someone say telling me that like, you know, you have 51% of the decision making in this company or in this organization.

I was like, Excuse me.  It was just so humbling. It's not interesting  that didn't make me at all feel like , Oh my God. So yeah, that was.  My big thing this week.  whisper's lesson and true humility.  not acting like a mouse.

It's actually roaring like a lion , right? . It's true though. Yeah. That's  a good point. I love that. And also you talked about your   organization too and all the good that they're doing and that's fantastic. And the other organization too. They are, they're doing good stuff.  

It doesn't align with your values. And good for you for speaking up about it. . Good job. B Whisperer. . No, I'm kidding. We're we getting the hang of a few things? I think. You do tend to learn things as you age.

Yes.  I was reading the myth of normal, right? And. I never know why my mind comes up with what it does. . I was thinking about Anton Hills. You know how  you only see a tiny little bit of it, but there's a whole lot more underneath that you're not seeing and that you can't ever really understand,  . So I wrote this little thing about it, so we're going to share it with everyone and maybe you will enjoy it and  maybe it will help you materialize some things in your mind too, like it did for me. I don't know.

 The an hill, when you see an ant, Like a volcano of dirt jutting above its surroundings. What you do not see is that an entire universe exists under that  tiny visible mound  the at hill is a mere byproduct of what lies below. , the dislodged grains of dirt that once lived happily in the ground part of the earth, never questioning their right to exist or take up space, are discarded by the builders of the underground labyrinth.

They become the observable effects of the maze of life beneath the surface. I'm all

liken this, if you will, to the manifestations of trauma. What is perceivable to those around you and sometimes even to ourselves is nothing more than a sliver of what exists within these. Anton Hills are more than an eyesore. They are our unrelenting desire for perfection. They are our need to please those around us.

They are our kindness and unwavering pleasantness, even in the face of adversity. They are our drive to succeed. They are our self denial, even to our own hurt. In our culture, they are perceived as strengths. The always positive, I think this was the part that came from the book, was that he was talking about how these kind of things are perceived as strengths.

The always positive, driven, multitasking, success, addicted, constantly achieving something. Members of society that we so often are what is not recognized are the parts of you that have been displaced to create these, an hills, each grain of soil, a segment of you that was surrendered. Often unwittingly, replacing the dislodged soil can take a lifetime.

Things will never be the way they once were or even the way they could have. But with time, the soil can be pushed gently back into those neglected places of the soil. The grass can grow back greener and stronger than it ever was. If we are not afraid to go into those tunnels and observe the damage.

Not afraid to give ourselves the time we need to heal from the disruptions to our souls. Not afraid to chase out the intruders that we have allowed to burrow into the depths of our very existence. Not afraid to let the warmth penetrate those deep, dark scars in our souls. Not afraid to change, not afraid to move the earth of our hearts around and see where it fits best.

Most importantly, not afraid to be who we are. There will always be the Anton Hills of our souls. What matters is how we handle them. Once we recognize them for what they are not, for what they have been touted as by society. It is exponentially easier to take the right measures to unbuild them as they continue to appear.

Anything that has been done can be undone. The effects can never be quantified, but once we are aware of their existence, we can take the appropriate measures to learn to live with them and understand what they truly are. There's nothing wrong with the proverbial dirt in the athi. It is not defective or unwanted.

It is not there because it misbehaved, naughty dirt, , or does not deserve to exist. It was dislodged for the needs of another.

   It's beautiful. I loved it. Thank you.

So what do we got coming up?  We have, this is still fluctuating , but  we're gonna have a former guest come back on with some really exciting news and some things that's going on.  The week after that we're gonna be heading into holiday season, right? Thanksgiving? Yeah. Yes. We should be giving thanks this year because I have a kitchen . Yeah. Oh, do you know what we're gonna do for Thanksgiving? Which is amazing. So what  my daughter's boyfriend  him and his brother, their parents are like on the East Coast or something they don't have anyone to have Thanksgiving with.

And so we are actually all gonna go up and have Thanksgiving with them. So me, Kenny Luca, and then and then I, it's gonna be , a how do you say that? The friends Thanksgiving type of thing. Because I think there's a few displaced people that we're starting to hear about so it is like starting to grow already or the amount of people that are being me there,  This is  the first time,  I've followed my kids to  a holiday, celebration. So that's cool.  Of course  we all went to go visit my oldest , in Arizona that time. , but I was a little bit different than like actually going, so yeah.

You have a lot of big day of cooking.  You have just the four of you?  Just the four of us so far? Yeah.

It should be fun. Yeah, I have a kitchen, so I'm happy. . The other thing that I do on, like I'm hoping to be able to do for r podcast  is it would be really great to have a few people, a few of us ex cult born ins talk a little bit about  holidays and a little bit of okay, what was it like what holidays did you celebrate and thus and so  or what did it look like?

Yeah. That'd be , an interesting thing. . These next couple months are gonna be a little spotty because we're moving into our new format and everything like that  and the holidays and all of the holiday and the holidays and all that.

Yeah. So yeah. We, we are, sorry if we're confusing you about  what days we're coming out with what  and we're confused where're even where we have been but we're, it's gonna, it's just gonna be a little bit spotty while we get that all sorted out. And I guess now, yeah, find out what's gonna happen with the year surgery and that quote that says I read it a couple days ago that said if you're going through, hell at least walk like you own the place . Damn straight. I like that.

That's good one. I like that.

All right. All right. On behalf of our little Aunt Hills , from our Aunt Hill to your Aunt Hill , we will we'll see you again  you because every butterfly wants a caterpillar . No, I'm sorry.

We'll see. Look, Cause every butterfly becomes a caterpillar 📍